Trauma, Community, and Compassion in Parenting with Robyn Gobbel

Hello and welcome to All Things Foster, a place for coffee, connection, and community. Grab your coffee, sit in your easy chair, let's, we're gonna have, I'm super excited today, because I get to talk to one of my heroes, Robyn Gobbel. Thank you so much for coming on today.

Robyn (00:16)

⁓

⁓ I'm just delighted just delighted to be here with you this morning, and I also have my coffee

Matthew Darrah (00:24)

Yes, yes, that's, yeah, I drink way too much. But anyways, we'll get into that. So thank you to our episode sponsor today, Kristy Hood Agency from Farmers Insurance, conveniently located at 4300 Tecla Boulevard, Suite 16, open Monday through Friday, 830 to 530, Saturday by appointments. As a trusted local agent, we are here to help protect what matters most.

Robyn (00:29)

You

Matthew Darrah (00:52)

whether it's your home, car, business, or life, we are dedicated to offering personalized service and solutions that fit your needs. So stop by or give us a call today at 806-318-2555. Se habla Espanol. Okay, so the title of today's episode is The Power of Connection, a conversation with Robyn Goble. So Robyn, again, thank you so much for coming on today.

Robyn (01:18)

I'm delighted, just delighted to be here.

Matthew Darrah (01:21)

Well, ⁓ so I was introduced, I was on a Facebook, closed Facebook group for foster parents in Texas and was just desperate for some resources a couple years ago. And ⁓ I just put out there like, guys, we're drowning, we need help. And so somebody on there recommended this podcast called The Baffling Behavior Show. And so I started listening to it avidly.

Robyn (01:48)

Mm-hmm.

You

Matthew Darrah (01:51)

And

it just, it really helped ⁓ me. so, so then when the book came out, I was, I pre-ordered it, I was super excited, we read it, we decided it was so good. And so, ⁓ her book, The Raising Kids with Big Baffling Behaviors, every foster parent that receives a placement package and the Panhandle gets a copy of this book because we feel like it is so, so important.

just the way that Robyn kind of breaks things down and Nat on the first page says, I knew it was gonna be hard. I didn't know it was gonna be this hard. And that's the sentiment that we get from all of our families is it's just so hard and we just didn't know. And so her work is really, really important to me personally, to our family. And so I wanted to have her on here ⁓ and let her share with you guys.

Robyn (02:37)

Yeah.

Matthew Darrah (02:48)

a little bit about her, about the book, the club, and all the things that she's doing. So Robyn, just a little bit on your of your background. What got you into this trauma place?

Robyn (03:06)

There's so many ways I could go with that question. mean, and I look back, I think I've wanted to work with kids with really out of control behaviors. Like I've wanted to work with the kids that kind of nobody else wanted to. And maybe that was kind of some appeal to me was like the nobody else wanted to part. It's hard to say, but I've really wanted to do that work since high school. ⁓

Matthew Darrah (03:35)

There's this woman named Tori Hayden and she wrote, she's a special educator and a psychologist I think, and she wrote memoirs that really read like fiction that I discovered in high school, like in high school library. And she essentially did this work that I was like, that's what I wanna do. She worked with just the hardest kids. And I continue actually to reread those books on occasion.

Robyn (03:35)

this woman named Tori Hayden, she wrote, she's a special educator and a psychologist, I think, and she wrote memoirs that really read like fiction that I discovered in high school, like in my high school library. And she essentially did this work that I was like, that's what I want to do. She worked with just the hardest kids. And I continue actually to reread those books on occasion. ⁓

Matthew Darrah (04:05)

So I've been

Robyn (04:05)

relatively one track for most of my career when I did all of my like practicums and internships in graduate school. I was working with kids who had histories of trauma, abuse, neglect, ⁓ always been really interested in the diagnosis of reactive attachment disorder. When I was in graduate school, we were using reactive attachment disorder kind of differently than we do now. ⁓

Matthew Darrah (04:05)

relatively one track for most of my career when I did all of my like practicums and internships in graduate school. I was working with kids who had histories of trauma, abuse, neglect, always been really interested in the diagnosis of reactive attachment disorder. When I was in graduate school, we were using reactive attachment disorder kind of differently than we do now.

Robyn (04:35)

So in some ways I can feel like it's kind of hard to say like why these kids, why this work. It's just what I've always wanted to do. And in most ways, it's all I actually ever have done for better, for better, for worse. So when we were in Austin, I had a private practice, worked with kids, mostly post adoption. Most of them were in adoptive families.

Matthew Darrah (04:36)

So in some ways I can feel like it's kind of hard to say why these kids, why this work. This is what I've always wanted to do and in most ways it's all I actually ever have done for better, for better for worse. So when we were in Austin I had a private practice, worked with kids.

Mostly post-adoption, most of them were in adoptive families.

Robyn (05:05)

just because of the way the insurance worked and all that kind of good stuff. I tended to work with post-adoptive families and did that relatively exclusively. Like usually 80, 85 % of my caseload was kids and their adoptive families. And then it was very clear to me very early that nobody else,

Matthew Darrah (05:05)

Just because of the way the insurance worked and the good stuff, tended to work with post-adoptive families. Did that relatively exclusively, like usually 80, 85 % of my caseload was kids and their adoptive families. And then it was very clear to me very early that nobody else...

Yeah. ⁓

Robyn (05:28)

not even nobody else, because I didn't really know what to do either. Nobody knew what to do with these kids.

and their parents didn't, and as professionals, we didn't. And I think in some ways I was like new blood when I started

working. And it was like, ⁓ Robyn, she likes these kids. Send them all there. And there came a point where was like, well, I can't take all these kids. I don't have space, right? I can only work so many hours a week. And there was nowhere else to send them. Nobody else would take them. So then I started also

Matthew Darrah (05:43)

Right. ⁓

Hmm.

also

really loving to do professional development and I was.

Robyn (05:59)

really loving to do professional development. I was,

I remember so clearly having the thought that I'm not an expert in this by any means, but I have a little more experience than these other folks do. And so I might as well try to offer that to them and see if I can be helpful. And there can be more people in the community who are able to work with these families.

Matthew Darrah (06:15)

and if I can be helpful and there can be more people in the community who are able to work with these families.

Right. Yeah, from a personal perspective, there's not, there is just not enough support mechanisms for families that are struggling with kiddos that have traumatic issues. ⁓ so that's really why ⁓ your work is just so stinking important.

Robyn (06:27)

Right? Yeah.

Right.

Matthew Darrah (06:46)

So talk to us about the book. How did you decide? I I've thought at times, like, I want to a book. I read a lot and ⁓ everything, but writing a book is totally different than reading one. So what was the impetus to say, I'm going to sit down and write this book?

Robyn (06:49)

Mm-hmm.

⁓ Same.

I think there's also, I'm a voracious reader. I would call reading a hobby of mine. constantly, I love books. I love information. I love words. So I think there's probably a part of me that's always had, you know, write a book, the bucket list of things I would maybe do one day. And it's one of those things that it is hard. It's a lot of work. I didn't know how to do it. So it just never, you know, made it.

Matthew Darrah (07:27)

and things that would maybe do one day. And it's one of those things that it is hard, it's a lot of work, I didn't know how to do it. So it just never made itself

Robyn (07:39)

self to the top of my list of priorities. And then, you know, like everybody else in the whole wide world, life really changed in March of 2020. And it changed for a whole lot of reasons. And but for sure, one of the

Matthew Darrah (07:39)

to the top of my list of priorities. And then, like everybody else in the whole wide world, life really changed in March of 2020. And it changed for a whole lot of reasons. But for sure, one of the...

Robyn (07:56)

one of the things I really reckoned with was how do I want to impact? What what do I want to do next at this stage of my career? How can I help as many people?

Matthew Darrah (07:56)

One of the things I really reckoned with was how do I want to impact, what do I want to do next at this stage of my career? How can I help as many people

as possible given all of the privileges that I have? ⁓ And also because it was the pandemic, things that were normally drawing or pulling at my attention.

Robyn (08:09)

as possible, given all of the privileges that I have. ⁓ And also because it was the pandemic, things that were normally drawing or pulling at my attention maybe

Matthew Darrah (08:22)

maybe weren't as much. And so I also acknowledge I have no idea how to write a book. So I actually hired somebody. I'm a big fan of hiring help.

Robyn (08:22)

weren't as much. And so I also acknowledge I have no idea how to write a book. So I actually hired somebody. I'm a big fan of hiring help.

Matthew Darrah (08:36)

So I hired a book proposal coach who helps me write a proposal for a publisher. But actually, she ended up doing so much more than that. She really helped me organize my.

Robyn (08:36)

So I hired a book proposal coach who helped me write a proposal for a publisher. But actually, she ended up doing so much more than that. She really helped me organize my content

in a way I had never previously really put into such an organized way, which has helped me in every aspect of my work. ⁓

Matthew Darrah (09:04)

So is

this was this this was long after starting the podcast when did when did you start the podcast?

Robyn (09:11)

So the podcast aired the first time in December of 2020.

Matthew Darrah (09:19)

okay, so this is, so you started considering the book before you started the podcast? Or was it around the same?

Robyn (09:27)

It was, I'd have to really pause and think about this, but I think it was probably about the same time, actually. ⁓ That this also coincided with some things happening in my personal life that kind of, I think, allowed it all to germinate at about the same time. So I started the podcast. It was the Parenting After Trauma podcast. Started the club. And I think it probably was right about the same time where I said, okay, it was kind of...

Matthew Darrah (09:32)

Mm. Yeah.

This also coincided with some things happening in my own, in my personal life.

Right. ⁓

Robyn (09:55)

It's time to do this for real. And so I hired this woman who did help me write a proposal and get a publisher. But really, she helps me create what you all see now, which is this very organized approach.

Matthew Darrah (10:10)

Mm. ⁓

Right. It wasn't so organized before. Yeah.

Robyn (10:13)

It wasn't so organized before. And once I worked with her, I wouldn't say writing the book was easy. But once I worked with her,

Matthew Darrah (10:20)

say writing the book was easy, but once I worked with her,

Robyn (10:23)

Writing the book was not the hardest part of this journey, by any means. I just kind of sat down and wrote it. Publishing a book is hard. But the writing it was fun. What I really needed to do, and you've kind of mentioned that already, I remember walking on my treadmill and really thinking, if I'm going to write a book, and

Matthew Darrah (10:24)

writing the book was not the hardest part of this journey. I just kind of sat down and wrote it. Publishing a book is hard. Yeah, I don't doubt. But the writing it was fun. What I really needed to do, and you've kind of mentioned that already, I remember walking on my treadmill and really thinking, if I'm going to write a book,

Robyn (10:49)

I'm going to essentially take

Matthew Darrah (10:49)

And I'm going to essentially take

Robyn (10:51)

people's time, like someone like you who's desperate for help, picks up a book. Like if I'm going to take that person's time, I want it to be worth it. So I don't want to just write another

Matthew Darrah (10:51)

people's time. Someone like you, who's desperate for help, picks up a book. If I'm going to take that person's time, I want it to be worth it. So I don't want to just write another.

Robyn (11:06)

parenting book. Lots of great parenting books out there, lots of books I recommend already. I didn't want to just write another parenting book. So I really pondered.

Matthew Darrah (11:06)

parenting book. Right. Great parenting books out there. Lots of books I recommend already. I didn't want to just write another parenting book. So I really pondered.

Robyn (11:20)

How do I want to do it differently in a way that could impact people differently? Which is why I end up writing it the way that I did.

Matthew Darrah (11:21)

do it differently in a way that can impact people differently, which is why I end up writing it the way that

I did. Which, and I have, I've read a ton of different parenting books and worked my way through some really intense trauma books and stuff like that, but the way that Robyn wrote this book is just.

It's impactful. It's very impactful. before we kind of, I do want to dig into the flow of the book. Before we do, let's talk about the Owl, the Watchdog, and the Possum. First of all, did you come up with those, that delineation?

Robyn (11:53)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

So yes, and the reality is, is it isn't the most original metaphor ever. mean, lots of people are using similar metaphors. And also, you know, I spent 15 years as a play therapist and more than that with kids. And so much of the language really kind of started with them. And I think one of the things I'm good at is being

Matthew Darrah (12:13)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm Sure ⁓

Robyn (12:31)

you know, very observational and really, you know, I think it made me a good therapist, really paying attention to what's happening for people or what they're expressing, but having trouble finding the words to express. in general, I feel like it was kind of a collaboration between me and the kids that I worked with in finding these

metaphor words, which metaphor kind of works that way. Like metaphors land for a lot of people. So.

Matthew Darrah (12:55)

And metaphor kind of works that way. Like metaphor is land for a lot of people. So

Robyn (13:00)

The idea of the owl and the watchdog and the possum. Again, I think other folks are using similar, similar metaphors, but it feels like it was a joint effort between me and the kids that I was working with.

Matthew Darrah (13:01)

the idea of the owl and the watchdog and the possum, again, I think other folks are using similar metaphors. it feels like it was a joint effort between me and the kids that I was working with. Sure. So let's talk about them. What are the owl, the watchdog, and the possum for our listeners?

Robyn (13:23)

So they started as describing different brain states. And the reason it was so important for me to come up with some kind of metaphor, but also some sort of metaphor. The reason that animals are important is because kids are, it's pretty easy for kids to make a relationship with an animal. And that's actually an important part of the whole process. ⁓

So it really started largely based on Dr. Bruce Perry's work. And Dr. Perry ⁓ has a theory of what he calls state dependent functioning and the arousal continuum. And he talks about the arousal state of calm, which is loosely correlated to the owl. And then as soon as the brain flips onto

Matthew Darrah (13:56)

And Dr. Perry.

what he calls state dependent functioning, and the arousal continuum, and he talks about the arousal state of calm, which is loosely correlated to the owl, and then as soon as the brain slips onto the

Robyn (14:19)

arousal continuum and it goes down either the fight-flight pathway or the dissociation pathway. And so the fight-flight pathway now maps

Matthew Darrah (14:19)

arousal continuum and it goes down either the pathway or the dissociation pathway. And so the fight flight pathway now maps

Robyn (14:30)

over to what I would call the watchdog pathway and then the dissociation pathway really maps over to what I would call the possum pathway. And Dr. Perry is largely talking about brain states. He's really thinking about

Matthew Darrah (14:31)

over to what I would call the watchdog pathway and then the dissociation pathway really maps over to what I would call the possum pathway. Perry is largely talking about brain states. He's really thinking about

Robyn (14:45)

the brainstem and the diencephalon and the limbic areas and the prefrontal cortex and how arousal and activation shift essentially kind of what area of the brain is

Matthew Darrah (14:45)

the brain stem and the diancephalon and the limbic areas and the prefrontal cortex and how arousal and activation shift essentially kind of what area of the brain.

is most online. And then over the years, I also was introduced to a theory of the autonomic nervous system, the polyvagal theory. And there's actually a decent amount of overlap in how these two theories are conceptualizing

Robyn (14:58)

most online. And then over the years, I also was introduced to a theory of the autonomic nervous system, the polyvagal theory. And there's actually a decent amount of overlap in how these two theories are conceptualizing

humans and energy and activation and arousal.

Matthew Darrah (15:15)

humans and energy and activation and arousal.

Robyn (15:19)

Dr. Perry's kind of thinking more about the brain. Polyvagal theory thinks more about the autonomic nervous system. And so the three owl, watchdog and possum also map over to the polyvagal theory and to our autonomic states of safety, danger and life threats and how our body responds to those different states.

Matthew Darrah (15:19)

Dr. Perry's kind of thinking more about the brain, Polyvagal theory thinks more about the autonomic nervous system. And so the three owl, watchdog, and possum also map over to the Polyvagal theory and to our autonomic states of safety, danger, and life threat and how our body responds to those different states.

So.

Robyn (15:45)

So

owls and washtogs and possums are kind of like a mashup of Dr. Perry's brain states and Dr. Porges's polyvagal theory. And the intention really is to help us, the grownups and the kids, make sense of in a non-judgmental and compassionate way why we're doing what we're doing. Because sometimes it's really baffling.

Matthew Darrah (15:48)

and watchdogs and possums are kind of like a mashup. ⁓ Dr. Perry's brain states and Dr. Porges's polyvagal theory. the intention really is to help us, the grownups and the kids, make sense of in a non-judgmental and compassionate way why we're doing what we're doing. Because sometimes...

really baffling.

Robyn (16:15)

Yes. What?

Matthew Darrah (16:17)

It's like what in the world just happened.

Robyn (16:19)

Exactly. Did that answer your question? Was that too brainy?

Matthew Darrah (16:23)

Yeah,

so basically the owl, the watchdog, and the possum are representatives of how we're we're at mentally and how we're acting. And so do you mind just kind of a brief overview what the owl means, the watchdog, the possum.

Robyn (16:45)

Yep. So the owl is the part of the brain or the nervous system state that emerges or in charge when we are experiencing safety and connection. The owl brain, the owl pathway helps us kind of be our best selves, be our truest selves, operate out of like the highest part of our brain that's possible. I mean, like a three year old and their owl brain and a 40 year old and their owl brain, of course, aren't the same. They're slightly different.

Matthew Darrah (16:52)

experiencing safety and connection.

Kind of be our best selves, be our truest selves, operate out of the highest part of our brain that's possible. mean, a three-year-old in their owl brain and a 40-year-old in their owl brain, of course, A little different. ⁓

Robyn (17:13)

So I think about it as like the highest, most grown up parts of self possible where we can really use all of our cognitive skills. ⁓ can, so not only is it like this, this thinking part of the brain where we're accessing those highest cornical skills, but it's also the part of the brain that's feeling safe and connected. So it's an embodied part. It's a relational space. The owl is.

Matthew Darrah (17:18)

possible, where we can really use all of our cognitive skills. ⁓ We can, so not only is it like this thinking part of the brain where we're accessing those highest cortical skills, but it's also the part of the brain that's feeling safe and connected. So it's an embodied part, it's a relational space. The owl is

Robyn (17:42)

responsible for behaviors

Matthew Darrah (17:43)

responsible for behaviors.

Robyn (17:45)

that are bringing us into connection or behaviors that other people like and want to be in connection with. ⁓

Matthew Darrah (17:45)

that are bringing us into connection or behaviors that other people like and want to be in connection with. And that's one

thing I do want to point out here. Robyn makes a statement that echoes through everything, through the book, through the podcast, through the club, is that regulated, connected kids who feel safe do well. And so when we're...

when we're interacting with a child that is safe, feels safe, felt safety, those are the times when they're doing the thing that they need to be doing, that they want a hug, they want a kiss, they eat their dinner, whatever it is that they're doing. ⁓ And so that premise of connection is just absolutely

to really understanding the whole premise of Robyn's work. And so that's something we've got to establish now is that I love that saying that regulated connected kids who feel safe do well. And so when they're in that owl state, that's when they're feeling connected, right? That's when they have the ability to think, to do the things that they need to do. And that's when we want to connect with them. But having that

that connection is the most important. On my perspective, the most important piece of your work is that connection, right?

Robyn (19:26)

I think so. mean, like you, my connection to this work is kids who have been hurt in relationship. There are a lot of people who are picking up the book and finding, you know, really resonating with it, who are parenting kids who have a lot of baffling behaviors and a lot of vulnerability in their nervous system, but they don't have that history necessarily of that attachment trauma. But for those of us who are, you know, especially

Matthew Darrah (19:31)

Right. ⁓

Robyn (19:55)

parenting with or working with or know people who have had that connection based trauma.

I do think, and that's why it's such a central part of the model that like reminding ourselves that at our core humans, humans don't just want to connect with one another. They need to. I mean, it's a require for, it's a literal requirement for survival. And I also know that a lot of us are parenting kids who act like the last thing they want.

Matthew Darrah (20:02)

I do think, and that's why it's such a central part of the model, reminding ourselves that at our core, humans don't just want to connect with one another. Yeah, they need to.

Right. ⁓

Robyn (20:23)

is to be connected to us or anyone else. And that is a pretty demoralizing place to be, right? To be in relationship with somebody who is making it very clear they don't want connection with you or anyone else. So then we fall into hopelessness, helplessness, or anger, rage, you know, like, which is not good for us. So for me, that piece of remembering that

Matthew Darrah (20:47)

that connection, Dr. Porter says, connections are biological imperative.

Robyn (20:47)

connection, Dr. Porter says, connections are biological imperative.

We need connection. Literally, we need connection to survive. It's how our brains develop. It is our default. It is a core part of our humanity. So if I'm with somebody who is rejecting connection, behaving in a way that's making me not want anything to do with them, you're really kind of making themselves unconnectable, which is very different than someone who's just like,

Matthew Darrah (20:53)

need connections, literally we need connection to survive, it's how our brains develop, it is our default. It is a core part of our humanity. So if I'm with somebody who is rejecting connection, behaving in a way that's making me not want anything to do with them, you're really kind of making themselves unconnectable. Which is very different than someone who's just like.

Robyn (21:16)

hey,

I'm kind of connected out. I'd like some alone time, right? Those are two very different experiences. You know, I think it's crucial that we see this child who's rejecting connection and as much as possible, try to remember like something's not right here. Something's not right. This is they need literally need connection to survive. So what's going on here, which keeps our curiosity on board.

Matthew Darrah (21:19)

That's very different.

⁓ The

curiosity piece is super. So let's get back to the possum owl and watchdog. So we talked about the owl. That's the higher thinking, however higher they're able to, whether that's a four-year-old or a 40-year-old. That's the owl brain. So then the watchdog. And I know that there's multiple.

Robyn (21:47)

Yeah.

Yep. Yeah. Yep.

Yep, yeah, Yep.

Matthew Darrah (22:03)

facets too, but so the watchdog.

Robyn (22:06)

Yeah. The simplest

way I think to just look at it is, we know the owl emerges when the nervous system is feeling safe and connected. One, the nervous system starts to experience a lack of safety, danger or life threat. The nervous system shifts from connection mode to what I call protection mode. And in protection mode, there's these two pathways, the watchdog pathway, the possum pathway. The watchdog pathway is a pathway of energy.

Matthew Darrah (22:33)

is a pathway of energy and

Robyn (22:34)

and increased activation. So the watchdog maps over to what we would call like the fight flight state of our body. The watchdog pathway is the pathway of sympathetic activation. It fuels our body. We're getting more energy in our arms and our legs. We're breathing faster. Our heart is, you know, beating faster. Like everything's increased on the watchdog pathway and it's a protective pathway. So it's still a

Matthew Darrah (22:35)

increased activation. So the watchdog maps over to what we would call like the fight flight state of our body. The watchdog pathway is the path of sympathetic activation. It fuels our body. We're getting more energy in our arms and our legs. We're breathing faster. Our heart is beating faster. Everything's increased on the watchdog pathway. And it's a protective pathway. So it's still a.

Robyn (23:02)

the behaviors that emerge from the watchdog pathway are often rejecting connection in lieu of finding safety and like that starts to prioritize safety. And then the possum pathway is another protective pathway, but instead of an increase in energy, which fuels our arms and our legs so we can run or fight or scream or yell or kick or whatever,

Matthew Darrah (23:02)

the behaviors that emerge from the watchdog pathway are often rejecting connections. Exactly. And we were finding safety, like that starts to prioritize safety. ⁓ And then the possum pathway is another protective pathway, but instead of an increase in energy, which fuels our arms and our legs so we can run or fight or scream or yell or kick or whatever,

the possum

Robyn (23:30)

The possum pathway

Matthew Darrah (23:31)

Yeah. Right. ⁓

Robyn (23:31)

is a pathway, essentially, that takes over when that doesn't work, right? Like when fighting, running, fleeing, it won't keep you safe. A possum pathway is a pathway of kind of the opposite, like of a collapse, decrease of energy. So instead of running and fighting and fleeing, the possum

Matthew Darrah (23:47)

decrease of energy, so instead of running and fighting and fleeing, the possum

loses energy in its arms and legs and collapse, gets smaller, talks less, heart rate decreases, breathing decreases, some dissociation can emerge. these are two physiological pathways. The pathways aren't metaphorical. They're real pathways in our brain, in our nervous system that...

Robyn (23:52)

you know, loses energy in its arms and legs and collapse, gets smaller, talks less, heart rate decreases, breathing decreases, some dissociation can emerge. So these are two physiological pathways. The pathways aren't metaphorical. They're real pathways in our brain, in our nervous system that,

you know, help us stay safe under threat.

Matthew Darrah (24:14)

help us stay safe under threat.

Yeah. And the more we use one of those pathways, the more it's going to come out, right? Exactly.

Robyn (24:26)

Exactly. Like anything

else, the more we practice something, the more like the more that pathway is exercised, the more we're going to use that pathway.

Matthew Darrah (24:38)

And so that, a lot of times, that can develop where the child, early on, leans towards either the possum or the watchdog. And so depending on how the child responded to the trauma, that's more likely the direction that they're gonna go. Not necessarily always, but.

Robyn (24:52)

Yes.

Exactly. mean, there's a lot of complicating factors, but generally speaking, most of us do have kind of a default pathway. Most of us would say like, yeah, I'm a fighter or I'm a fleer or I'm a collapses. And just like you said, it's not a hundred percent of the time, usually based on our experiences and our environment, there tends to be sort of a go-to pathway because we've discovered it works best for us.

Matthew Darrah (25:11)

Yeah. Right,

yeah. So how the book's been out, is it up to two years now? September. So.

Robyn (25:37)

Almost in September it'll be two, yep, yep.

Matthew Darrah (25:40)

What's your, what is the response been? mean, you get feedback from families. What is the response been from this book?

Robyn (25:49)

Generally, mean, almost exclusively, the response has blown my mind and just extremely positive. mean, ⁓ what I'm hearing from people is the metaphor is helpful, the metaphor makes sense, the metaphor works for them and their kids. Again, these are things I sort of knew because I was watching it be true in my office, right? Like the kids were kind of using the metaphor, but it worked great for the grownups too.

So folks that have seemed to really resonate with the metaphor, ⁓ people have, which is what I'd hoped, people have really resonated with the way the book was written. ⁓ And I think it's helping people feel a lot more compassionate and understanding, not just to their kids, but to themselves, which is really, you know, I think that is

Matthew Darrah (26:29)

which is what I'd hoped people have really resonated with the way the book was written. And I think it's helping people feel a lot more compassionate and understanding, not just to their kids, but to themselves. is really, I think that

is a missing piece in lot of parenting work. And it's the most important piece. Absolutely. In order to change, you have to...

Robyn (26:48)

I'm missing piece in a lot of parenting work. And it's the most important piece. Yeah.

Matthew Darrah (27:00)

see it or maybe that's, so let's talk about that. The book is written with Nat, so talk to us about Nat.

Robyn (27:08)

So Nat's a fictional character who is essentially just kind of a composite of, you know, all the parents I've worked with over the years. They, I mean, people say, I saw myself in Nat and I like, yes, because there's actually not that much difference, right? That like over and over and over again, people come into my office and literally say the exact same thing. So.

Matthew Darrah (27:36)

Yeah.

Robyn (27:38)

kind of creating that wasn't very challenging in a way that made people go like, I really relate to her because truly people say the same thing over and over and over again. It's heartbreaking. ⁓ So that is a fictional character and the book follows Nat over what's probably about a year of parent coaching sessions. Each chapter opens with ⁓ kind of a bird's eye view of a parenting session.

Matthew Darrah (27:40)

that made people go like, I really relate to her because truly, people say the same thing over and over and over again. It's heartbreaking. ⁓ So Nat is a fictional character and the book follows Nat over what's probably about a year of parent coaching sessions. Each chapter opens with.

kind of a bird's eye view of a parenting session.

Robyn (28:08)

and I'm speaking in first person. So I really wanted the reader to, as the pages kind of unfolded and they got into the rhythm of the book, I really wanted the reader to feel like I was talking to them

Matthew Darrah (28:09)

And I'm speaking in first person. So I really wanted the reader to, as the pages kind of unfolded and they got into the rhythm of the book, I really wanted the reader to feel like I was talking to them.

Robyn (28:27)

because...

Matthew Darrah (28:27)

Which is,

personally, that's how it feels to me. I mean, it's like she's reading my journal. My wife had a procedure yesterday, and as she was coming out, there was a lady that was the nurse, and she saw my shirt, and she was like, you guys work with orphans or something? And so we got to talking, and she literally said,

Robyn (28:33)

Yeah.

Matthew Darrah (28:53)

the exact same thing that Nat said, and I've heard it so many times, but I knew it was gonna be hard, I didn't know it was gonna be this hard. And ⁓ that, you set the tone at the beginning with...

I see you and I feel where you're at and I wanna help you with that. And that to me and to the folks that I've talked to that have read the book, that's how they feel. They feel like they're sitting there in the office with Robyn going through this stuff.

Robyn (29:32)

I I'm so glad that was my hope. And I kind of took a risk. I wasn't sure if this idea that I had was going to work, you know? But I did have a lot of intentionality. I I know a little bit about how the brain changes and I've done, you know, so much work with people one-on-one in the office. And so I was seeing like what seems to matter, especially parents who are coming to me like...

Matthew Darrah (29:59)

to me like

Robyn (30:01)

who are bringing their children to me, but then I was getting time with the parents, that's not exactly therapy, right? Like, yeah, I was the therapist, but I wasn't exactly doing therapy with the parents in many circumstances, most circumstances. And so I spent a lot of time thinking like, so what did matter? What was so helpful to those

Matthew Darrah (30:01)

who are bringing their children to me but then I was getting time with the parents, that's not exactly therapy. Right. I was the therapist but I wasn't exactly doing therapy with the parents in many circumstances, most circumstances. And so I spent a lot of time thinking like so what did matter? What was so helpful to those?

Robyn (30:21)

parents beyond the work I was doing with their kids? What were they saying to me about what was so helpful? But also, by the time I started writing the book,

Matthew Darrah (30:21)

parents beyond the work I was doing with their kids. What were they saying to me about what was so helpful? But also, by the time I started writing the book,

I'd been blogging and had an email newsletter for years. I probably started my blog in 2012 or something like that. And so I would get emails from people and they would say things like,

Robyn (30:31)

I'd been blogging and had an email newsletter for years. I probably started my blog in 2012 or something like that. And so I would get emails from people and they would say things like,

I can hear your voice in my head, or I look forward to getting your emails every week. That's kind of like my dose of co-regulation and what those

Matthew Darrah (30:47)

I can hear your voice in my head. I look forward to getting your emails every week. That's kind of like my dose of co-regulation. And what those

Robyn (31:00)

message is meant to me was that I could create this relationship with folks

Matthew Darrah (31:00)

messages meant to me was that I could create this relationship with folks.

Robyn (31:09)

in a way that changed their brains. for someone to say, I hear your voice in my head, I go, ⁓ something has changed in your brain. You have internalized my regulation because the voice you're hearing in your head is a nice one who's being compassionate and, you know,

Matthew Darrah (31:09)

in a way that changed their brains. For someone to say, hear your voice in my head, I go, something has changed in your brain. Exactly. You have internalized my regulation, because the voice you're hearing in your head is a nice one who's being compassionate.

So I understand. I'm like, that means your brain has changed in this way. And we've never even met before. In fact, you've ever done is read my emails and my blog.

Robyn (31:26)

so I understand like, that means your brain is changing this way and you've entered and and we've never even met before. In fact, all you've ever done is read my emails in my blog.

Then I started podcasting and I I started giving even more of those emails. But my point is, is I was getting feedback from people that let me know if I approach this in a specific way, if the reader can feel like I'm actually talking to them. That will change their brain.

Matthew Darrah (31:45)

If I approach this in a specific way, if the reader can feel like I'm actually talking to them, that will change their brain.

Not unlike the way that people's brains were changing when they actually came to my office. It's not the same. Pretty darn close. mean, without making a few ⁓ clones of you, mean, it's the...

Robyn (31:54)

Not unlike the way that people's brains were changing when they actually came to my office. It's not the same, but it's pretty darn close.

Matthew Darrah (32:10)

I mean, I'm in Amarillo, I wasn't going to Austin to get counseling and I'm not going up there either, so. I mean.

Robyn (32:13)

No. Yeah. Which

that's astounding to me. I mean, I think that's just miraculous that I can sit here in my office and I can podcast and I can write a book and folks are feeling more compassionate towards themselves. Folks are feeling more regulated. Parents are growing their metaphorical owl brain.

And they're doing that through this relationship that exists on the page or exists in their earbuds. And I don't know, that's amazing to me. The information I give people and the tools are, I recognize, very helpful. People really appreciate that. I don't think that that's the most important part of what I do. I think people could get that information a lot of places. ⁓ But without...

kind of shifting their own nervous system a little bit more towards compassion towards themselves. They can't use any of those tools. So I really wanted the reader to hear my inner dialogue when I'm with a struggling parent. I really wanted the reader to hear what I think and how I feel towards that struggling parent. I wanted to...

Matthew Darrah (33:16)

They can't use any of those tools. So I really wanted the reader to hear my inner dialogue when I'm with a struggling parent. I really wanted the reader to hear what I think and how I feel towards that struggling parent. wanted them

to...

Robyn (33:39)

I wanted them to,

to ca- you know, when you're in my office, think you feel it, even if I don't necessarily give words to it. But if you're not in my office, I had to find a way to give words to it. And so I wanted them to hear my inner dialogue.

Matthew Darrah (33:42)

When you're in my office, I think you feel it, even if I don't necessarily give words to it. But if you're not in my office, I had to find a way to give words to it. And I wanted them to hear my inner dialogue.

And that's so hard to do on the page. But you did it. I mean, you absolutely did it. The way in which you wrote the book, and I've read a lot of books. I just finished a book today last fall on what happened to you with

Robyn (33:57)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Matthew Darrah (34:09)

Dr. Perry and

Robyn (34:09)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Matthew Darrah (34:10)

Oprah. It was great. I it was a really, really good book. ⁓ But we don't put that copy in the placement packages. We put yours because it makes, if you take the time to sit down and read it or listen to it, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think you hit a bullseye. so that's the book.

Robyn (34:13)

Yes.

I'm so glad, like that's all I wanted. That's all I wanted, so, yeah.

Matthew Darrah (34:37)

slash podcast, because really, I mean, it's a both and. And I say this, and I've linked her podcast in the show notes before. I really think you should subscribe to the podcast, because I mean, there's so many episodes. I was listening this week to the one on Cussing, and I was telling my wife, like, it's okay for me, not for them. ⁓

Robyn (34:56)

Ha ha ha ha ha!

⁓ I

don't know if I exactly said it was okay, but we can make sense of it. Yeah, yeah.

Matthew Darrah (35:07)

Yeah, yeah. And what's funny is that I had

done a five part series on trauma and she had referenced the same study that I asked her, I like, how do they test that? Like, hit them on the toe with a hammer and like measure their brain when they said crap versus something else. Yeah, I was curious on that. But anyways, so the book.

Robyn (35:21)

That's a great question.

Maybe. That's a great question.

Matthew Darrah (35:35)

Slash podcast you you really need to check out both But let's let's transition and let's talk about the club because again, I think it's I think it's an integral part and for 45 bucks a month I mean you can't you can't spend $50 better than that and in my opinion where I'm a member of the club and I turn there when I'm struggling and I

I guess before we get to, let's talk about co-regulation for a minute, because we really haven't delved into it. So let's talk about that.

Robyn (36:02)

Yeah.

Sure. So to talk about co-regulation, let's talk about regulation first. So regulation is a broad term that just basically means balance. Lots of the word regulation can apply to a lot of things. When we're talking about it and when we end up in this way, in parenting and in relationships, and when we move in to talk about co-regulation,

Matthew Darrah (36:15)

basically means.

and in relationships.

We're talking about the regulation of the energy and arousal of our autonomic nervous system essentially. Like when I'm regulated, I am in balance, am, my autonomic nervous system, it matches the situation, right? Like right now I'm safe and we're connected and we're social. So my autonomic nervous system is resting into this owl brain ventral state. That's a regulated place.

Robyn (36:30)

we're talking about the regulation of the energy and arousal of our autonomic nervous system, essentially. When I'm regulated, I am in balance. My autonomic nervous system, it matches the situation. Right now, I'm safe, and we're connected, and we're social. So my autonomic nervous system is resting into this owl brain ventral state. That's a regulated place.

Regulation is essentially like a developmental task. We're not born with the capacity to regulate our nervous system without help. We develop the capacity to do that because somebody is offering us a lot of co-regulation for a very, very long time. So co-regulation is really about, you're...

Matthew Darrah (36:59)

Regulation is essentially like a developmental task. We're not born with the capacity to regulate our nervous system without help. We develop the capacity to do that because somebody is offering us a lot of co-regulation for a very, long time. So co-regulation is really about, you're...

Robyn (37:26)

this is an oversimplification what works for right now like you're dysregulated I'm gonna stay regulated and connect with you I'm gonna bring my regulated energy in a way like kind of energetically offer it to you because you're struggling to have enough regulation yourself to shift out of dysregulation you can't do that so I'm gonna offer you my regulation that will help your nervous system you know return to

Matthew Darrah (37:26)

Right. ⁓

Robyn (37:53)

to a more regulated state that you couldn't do by yourself. And

Matthew Darrah (37:56)

Hopefully ⁓

Robyn (37:56)

over time, if I get enough co-regulation for a long enough period of time, I start to develop the ability to do that myself. Though we need co-regulation until we die. Like we're never meant to stop receiving co-regulation, but eventually, you know, we grow up and have some more capacity to stay regulated slightly.

Did that answer your question?

Matthew Darrah (38:24)

Yeah, so co-regulation is that you're upset. and we should probably mention regulated does not mean calm. You talk about that a lot. That doesn't mean that you're always just level. But when you match, when I'm upset and you come and match my energy with your regulation, then that helps me to bring down and become regulated.

Robyn (38:33)

Nope. Yep.

Right.

Yes.

Matthew Darrah (38:54)

And that's that co-regulation piece. And that to me is a big part of the reason for the club. ⁓ So the club is, I tell people it's kind of like social media. It's like a social media platform for kiddos who have neurodivergent kids. Right. And so talk us through that. What is it, how does it work, that kind of thing.

Robyn (39:08)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, it's an online, completely online virtual community. ⁓ it is not on a social media platform that is like one of the more popular ones we're probably all familiar with. But it is on a online platform that feels a lot like some social media platforms we're familiar with. There's a forum, a place for people to connect in the forum.

Matthew Darrah (39:33)

Mm-hmm. ⁓

Robyn (39:45)

And there's, we have live events and then we have tons and tons of videos and resources. So that's kind of from a practical place with the club is, I mean, I, you know, created the club for similar reasons as I wrote the book, as I saw this huge,

Matthew Darrah (40:03)

Yeah. ⁓

Robyn (40:03)

I've always seen this huge need. There's simply not enough support. And, and I also was a therapist in a very populated.

Matthew Darrah (40:11)

very hot.

Robyn (40:14)

relatively affluent place of Austin, Texas, therapy was accessible. Kind of. There's so much enough therapists for these kids, but therapy was kind of accessible. I've also been a therapist in a place where therapy is not very accessible for a whole host of reasons. There's not any therapists. There's families who can't afford therapy. They can't even afford the gas to get to therapy. They've got five kids. They all need therapy. There's just

Matthew Darrah (40:14)

Yeah. ⁓

Robyn (40:43)

a

million reasons why therapy is not accessible to families. And I also don't necessarily think that therapy is the best place for kids to heal. I think that it can be a really important addition, but I don't think it's the best and only place that kids can heal. So with the internet and with all of these cool things that we're experiencing now, and I think the pandemic

Matthew Darrah (40:43)

a million reasons why therapy is not accessible to families. And I also don't necessarily think that therapy is the best place for kids to heal. I think that it can be a really important addition, but I don't think it's the best and only place that kids can heal. So with the internet and with all of these cool things that we're experiencing now, and I think the pandemic.

Robyn (41:11)

in a way sort of sped this process up of us all feeling so much more comfortable with virtual connection and community and support. ⁓ But again, I looked at like, how does the brain change? And how can I create that in a way that's more accessible for people? And the club is not in any way, shape or form a substitute for therapy. But so much of what makes therapy therapy isn't therapy.

Matthew Darrah (41:12)

in a way sort of sped this process up of us all feeling so much more comfortable with virtual connection and community support. ⁓ But again, I looked at how does the brain change? And how can I create that in a way that's more accessible for people? And the club is not in any way, shape, form a substitute for therapy. So much.

make therapy therapy isn't therapy.

So much of what makes therapy work is safety, connection, being seen, compassion, boundaries. I'm like, well, those aren't unique to therapy. We can offer those things in all sorts of places. So I created this space that does have some really clear structure. have very clear expectations of.

Robyn (41:40)

So much of what makes therapy work is safety, connection, being seen, compassion, boundaries. know? ⁓ I'm well, those aren't unique to therapy. We can offer those things in all sorts of places. So I created this space that does have some really clear structure. have very clear expectations of,

you know, what the space is for.

Matthew Darrah (42:04)

you know, what the space is for

and how we interact with one another and the beliefs that we have about each other. So crucial folks coming into the club believe everybody else there is doing the very best that they can. And that is actually probably the most important part of the Yeah. We believe that about each other. Eventually we start to believe it about ourselves and our kids.

Robyn (42:07)

and how we interact with one another and the beliefs that we have about each other. It's so crucial. Folks coming into the club believe everybody else there is doing the very best that they can. And that is actually probably the most important part of the club. When we can believe that about each other, eventually we start to believe it about ourselves and our kids.

⁓

Matthew Darrah (42:32)

Right?

I say this a lot on the podcast, but we do better in community.

Robyn (42:39)

100%. That's very, first of all, intuitive, but also backed up by science. mean, there is clear science that says, if we have to do something hard, we will use fewer internal resources, meaning essentially it's a little bit less stressful. If we do this hard thing and somebody accompanies us, somebody's there with us, we don't feel alone.

Matthew Darrah (42:45)

Yeah.

meaning essentially it's a little bit less stressful. If we do this hard thing and somebody accompanies us, is there with us, we don't feel alone

in it. Even if the hard thing doesn't change at all, and it's still super hard, our nervous system experiences that hard thing differently. And so the club, think, does that for people. Yeah, it absolutely does. mean, you know, it's...

Robyn (43:07)

in it even if the hard thing doesn't change at all and it's still super hard our nervous system experiences that hard thing differently and so i the club i think does that for people

Matthew Darrah (43:24)

I'll go back to the example of the lady I was talking to yesterday. her kids that she adopted are grown, and she still felt alone. Because one of them has some pretty significant issues, ⁓ and she was tearing up. We were tearing up, all of the things. And she was talking about how she just feels alone, because it's like nobody outside this

Robyn (43:31)

Yeah. Yeah.

alone.

Matthew Darrah (43:54)

can really grasp it. And it's not like there's a foster adoptive family on every street corner. connecting with other, that's part of the reason I started this podcast was ⁓ to have that community. That's why it's called A Place for Coffee Connection and Community. ⁓ Because we can't just always.

Robyn (44:05)

Right. ⁓

Matthew Darrah (44:20)

get together in person with somebody. And so if we can listen to a podcast or jump on a social media platform and connect with people that understand. I could not understand somebody who's got a kiddo that's dealing with leukemia. I can't fathom it, I can't help them, but they have groups that help.

Robyn (44:21)

Right.

Right.

Right.

Matthew Darrah (44:48)

you know, parents that have kids with cancer or something like that. And so the club to me is that place where we can go, where we know, do they understand the exact situation that we're going through right now? No.

Robyn (45:06)

Sure.

Matthew Darrah (45:07)

But they

know a heck of a lot better what we're going through than Joe Schmo down the street that just says, you know, I went to a Bible study one morning and this family had just gotten placement of a three month old little girl. the guy was like...

Robyn (45:14)

Right. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Matthew Darrah (45:24)

He was saying, this family over here, they weren't there. Needs prayer, because the three month old that they just got is just crying nonstop, won't go to sleep. And one of the guys was like, of course not, she's a three month old. And I wanted to reach over that table and shake him. Like, okay, it's not the same as your three month old daughter that won't stop crying. It's not. Nothing is familiar for this little three month old. And so, being part of a group of people

Robyn (45:38)

Yeah.

It's different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew Darrah (45:53)

that just get it. And they may not have an answer to fix it, but you do. You feel seen. And that's just the forum part. That doesn't even get into all of the resources that are there in the club, all the other documents and the videos and things that aren't just available to everybody. And so in my personal belief, it's...

Robyn (46:18)

Right, right.

Matthew Darrah (46:23)

it's really important to join the club and just connect with other people across the world, really, because there's people from all over the world that are in there. ⁓ And just have folks that can say, man, I see you, and I know you're struggling, and I get it.

Robyn (46:31)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep.

Yeah.

Well, I think the most remarkable part about the club is y'all, is the people and how what you just said is literally how people talk to each other in the club. I've never seen anything like this before in my life. it's people come in and say all sorts of things, all sorts of things. Nothing is surprising in the club. And the responses are always some version of

Matthew Darrah (46:55)

Yeah ⁓

Robyn (47:12)

I see you. I

see you. And yeah, also sometimes the responses are, have you tried this or what about this or this could be helpful? And all of that's spectacular as well. But the magic is the, I'm not judging you. Like people say really outrageous things in the club. And it's just like, yeah, I get it. I see you. I've felt that way too. And that, and I don't.

Matthew Darrah (47:22)

Sure. Right. Mm-hmm.

Robyn (47:40)

I mean, I do feel like I created the structure for that. create I set the tone for that. Like this is how we are with each other. But now I just sit back and watch it happen. And that is so much more powerful, is so much more powerful for y'all to connect with each other in that way than it is to hear me say the exact same things. And for me, that really that's the thing that I marvel. I really marvel at this literally every day, literally every day. I'm like.

Matthew Darrah (47:43)

Yeah. ⁓

Robyn (48:08)

I cannot believe these people. These

are the most dysregulated, most hurt, least capacity parents practically on the planet. And look at how they show up for each other. I mean, it's my favorite part of my work, hands down.

Matthew Darrah (48:21)

Yeah, mean

I I do it work we're getting co-regulation from all these other people all over the world ⁓ and It's not like Facebook where you're just in there and you're you're seeing everybody on vacation and everything's wonderful and happy and all the things I mean, it's real people dealing with real things and and and and providing

for each other. That's what it is.

Robyn (48:51)

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a great tagline. Real people, real problems, real co-regulation.

It is kind of hard to describe. And it is amazing to watch unfold.

Matthew Darrah (49:03)

It is.

Yep, I absolutely love it. So join the club. You have membership open periodically. I think it was open last week, wasn't it? It was open real recently. It open recently, so we are taking a slightly different approach this year in opening more frequently. It used to be like every two or three months we'd open.

Robyn (49:25)

It was opened recently, so we are taking a slightly different approach this year and opening more frequently. It used to be like every two or three months we'd open for a few

days, but we've shifted to kind of every four, five, or six weeks opening for just a few days, which has shifted the pattern of which people come in in a way that I think is working great. I love it.

Matthew Darrah (49:36)

We've shifted to kind of every four, five or six weeks. Yeah. Opening for just a few days, which.

which people come in in a way that I think is working. Yeah, I

do. So you go to our website, robyngobbel.com slash the club, right? And then you can click on there and get the email subscription so that when it opens, you can jump in there. I think I've been in there about 18 months. I read the book, I pre-ordered it, read it as soon as it came out.

Robyn (49:53)

the club. Yep.

Yeah, exactly.

Okay.

Matthew Darrah (50:11)

⁓ And then you were on the pattern where it was a little while before and I just, I mean I was just waiting and waiting and waiting. I could not wait when it finally opened that I could get in there ⁓ and just have folks understand.

Robyn (50:18)

Yeah.

I'm glad you're there. I'm just so glad. Yeah, it's amazing.

Matthew Darrah (50:28)

It's powerful.

It is. is. So let's talk about the immersion program because like I have given the work that I do considered like I mean I have. ⁓ But so it you know we're all in therapy and ⁓ and it's I want to go and be like.

Robyn (50:42)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I'd love that. Yeah.

Matthew Darrah (51:00)

Okay, I can't stay in my owl brain or whatever. And they're like, I don't know what the heck you're talking about. And so the immersion program, talk to us about that.

Robyn (51:06)

You

Yes.

So after I started the club and wrote the book, although probably certainly before it was published, ⁓

you know, just hearing from folks like you need to help other professionals know how to do this. And I've always really enjoyed training professionals, but also really truly my true my real love is being with parents. And so I was pouring a lot of energy into that and into the club and to all the resources I creating for parents. then, you know, it became really obvious, like, well, one way I really help parents is to help professionals. So the immersion program is a very exciting

Matthew Darrah (51:47)

Yeah. ⁓

Robyn (51:51)

extensive,

very immersive year-long training program for professionals. Most of them are therapists, but not all. I'd say probably 75 % are trained in mental health clinicians. And the intention of it is to train professionals to be able to support the parents of highly dysregulated kids. And it's the exact same approach. We teach them the neurobiology of behavior. We teach them a ton of tools. And then

Matthew Darrah (52:14)

It's the exact same approach. We teach them the neurobiology of behavior. We teach them a ton of tools. then

what really, I think, sets the immersion program apart from most other parent coaching training programs is the emphasis that we place on the presence, on being with one another, on growing our own capacity.

Robyn (52:20)

What really, I think, sets the immersion program apart from most other parent coaching training programs is the emphasis that we place on the presence, on being with one another, on growing our own capacity,

Matthew Darrah (52:38)

our own nervous system capacity to sit with people who are highly dysregulated. Because as you know, parents of highly dysregulated kids are highly dysregulated. And that

Robyn (52:38)

our own nervous system capacity, to sit with people who are highly dysregulated. Because as you know, ⁓ parents of highly dysregulated kids are highly dysregulated themselves.

That overwhelms professionals. It overwhelms me too. I'm not

Matthew Darrah (52:51)

overwhelms professionals. And it overwhelms me too.

Robyn (52:54)

like immune to that, but it overwhelms professionals. And then that comes out with things like, I don't know how to help this person. I can't help them. But you know, all these things. And then they refer that parent out or they say, can't help you anymore. Blah, blah, And so that's kind of my heart is how can I help these professionals?

Matthew Darrah (53:10)

anymore blah blah blah and so that's kind of my heart is how can I help these professionals

sure get some new tools so that they feel confident and competent and they can actually help parents but what they really need even more than that is more energetic capacity

Robyn (53:18)

Sure, get some new tools so that they feel confident and competent and they can actually help parents. But what they really need even more than that is more energetic capacity to

be with parents who are one, highly dysregulated and two, who there really is not a lot of help for. And it is hard to be a professional and sit in front of somebody whose world is totally falling apart.

Matthew Darrah (53:29)

to be with parents who are one, highly dysregulated, and two, who there really is not a lot of help for. ⁓ And it is hard to be a professional and sit in front of somebody whose world is totally falling apart,

Robyn (53:41)

And to be honest, like, I'm sorry, but I actually don't have anything that can help you. Not only do I not have it, but actually that thing doesn't even exist. It's hard to sit there and be honest about that, that you can't really

Matthew Darrah (53:41)

and to be honest, like, I'm sorry, but I actually don't have anything that can help you. Not only do I not have it, but actually that thing doesn't even exist. It's hard to sit there and be honest about that, that you can't really.

Robyn (53:57)

do the thing that they need that would be helpful. And so that's what the immersion program I think does. Essentially we give connection and co-regulation to each other so that we can.

Matthew Darrah (53:57)

do the thing that they need, that would be helpful. And so that's what the immersion program, I think, does. Essentially, we give connections or regulation to each other so that we can stay

Robyn (54:10)

Stay with folks who are in the absolute depths of it so that we can say,

Matthew Darrah (54:11)

with folks who are in the absolute depths of it. So we can say,

Robyn (54:19)

don't know how to help you and what you need doesn't exist, but I will not abandon you. That's what I want the professionals who train in the immersion program to get. And then of course they get all sorts of other great stuff. They get my parent course, they unbelievable amounts of resources that help them help people, all that kind of stuff.

Matthew Darrah (54:19)

I don't know how to help you and what you need doesn't exist but I will not abandon you. Exactly. That's what I want, the professionals we train in the immersion program to get. And then of course they get all sorts of other great stuff. They get my parent course, they get unbelievable amounts of resources that help them help people, all that kind

of stuff. Yeah, so it's a year-long training program for professionals, ⁓ not necessarily...

Robyn (54:43)

Yes.

Matthew Darrah (54:45)

I mean I listened to the podcast a few weeks ago where you you had the it was a horse ⁓ Sarah yeah

Robyn (54:52)

Sarah. Yeah.

Matthew Darrah (54:54)

where they both went through it. And they're not counselors, they're not therapists, they're not psychologists. They just have some work that helps families with kiddos that are struggling. so it's a program that go through for a year that hopefully helps professionals help those families. And so you're...

Robyn (54:57)

Mm-hmm. Nope.

Matthew Darrah (55:23)

You're you're on a waitlist for the 2026 cohort, is that right?

Robyn (55:30)

So we're taking applications. We're next in 2026. I'll have, I'm running two concurrent cohorts for the first time to meet more needs. So one of the cohorts is full and one is not. So we're taking applications until that cohort fills up. Yeah.

Matthew Darrah (55:38)

to meet more need. So one of the cohorts is full and one is not. So we're taking applications until that cohort fills up. And

then you have a list, right, where people can go to your website and they can see, hey, this counselor in my area has been through this. We could maybe speak some of the same language because I'm over here reading the book and listening to the podcast.

and ⁓ they've been through this program. So they might be a good resource that maybe I need to go there, right?

Robyn (56:16)

Exactly. Yep, we maintain a directory that graduates can opt into, you know, and put themselves in the directory so that people can find them. Yeah.

Matthew Darrah (56:20)

that graduates can opt in to put themselves in the directory so that people can find them. Yeah,

because as a matter of fact, had recommended my son's, I got him a copy of the book and my son's counselor and stuff like that and he was looking into it and stuff because, I mean, not, you know.

A therapist isn't just a therapist is a therapist. They're not all the same and they're all they'll have different giftings and talents and things like that. And so if you're over here doing the work with this, then if you were able to find somebody nearby that had been through this program, that person is probably going to be able to have some of the tools that they might need. So they go to your website and look and see if somebody is close to them that

that has been through the program. Yeah, so that's fantastic. ⁓ So anything we didn't talk about that we should talk about?

Robyn (57:13)

Yeah.

Well, we've talked about a lot of things. A lot of things. I think you hit the important ones.

Matthew Darrah (57:23)

You

Yeah, well, I just gotta say so much. I absolutely love your work. It has really helped me personally with my trauma background. It's helped us as we parent our kiddos. And my hope is, as matter of fact, this gal started working for me part-time. And we had given them, they'd gotten a placement package last fall. And it had...

Robyn (57:50)

Mm-hmm.

Matthew Darrah (57:56)

been sitting there and when we connected earlier this year, it was like, oh, maybe I should read that. And I was like, you need to read that. You need to listen to podcast and join the club and stuff like that. so I just I absolutely love your work. I appreciate so much the.

Robyn (57:58)

Yep.

Yeah.

Matthew Darrah (58:19)

the empathy that you have in this book ⁓ for families that are like ours. And guys, it's not just families that have kiddos from hard places. ⁓ It could be a kiddo that has autism or something like that that's not neuro-typical, right?

Robyn (58:32)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Matthew Darrah (58:39)

And so that behavior whack-a-mole that Robyn talks

Robyn (58:39)

Yeah.

Matthew Darrah (58:42)

about where you're just trying to stop a behavior, but you're not dealing with the issue behind the behavior. And so I just think it's so stinking critical that people look at your work and really try to incorporate it into their...

their lives because I truly believe I don't have any other resources that I feel like are as impactful ⁓ for the families that we serve than your work. And so I just tremendously appreciate what you do.

Robyn (59:21)

Well, thank you. It's always nice to, you know, I work alone in my basement. And so it is occasionally nice to be reminded that that work is important. So thank you.

Matthew Darrah (59:25)

I work alone in my basement. It is occasionally nice to be reminded that that work is important. It is. It

is definitely important to a lot of folks. And so I appreciate it. I appreciate you coming on. What's one thing, if you were talking to a foster parent sitting in your basement right now, what would you tell them?

Robyn (59:37)

Yeah.

The first thing that came to my mind right now was like, this isn't your fault. This isn't your fault. And it's not the kids' fault either. It's not the kids' fault either. I mean, we're all just out there struggling in a struggling world. And what we all need, what parents need, what kids need, truly those things don't actually exist. And so we're just doing the very best we can to...

Matthew Darrah (1:00:08)

Yeah.

Robyn (1:00:19)

to meet those needs in the best way that they can and but yeah that was the first thing that came to my mind it's not your fault and it's not their fault either

Matthew Darrah (1:00:20)

meet those needs in the best way that they can. But yeah, that was the first thing that came to my mind. It's not your fault and it's not their fault either.

Yeah. And totally honest, it's not necessarily the bioparent's fault either. 100%. So yeah, same.

Robyn (1:00:34)

Oh no, a hundred percent. yeah, same.

I mean, I think we, I'm a real big believer in how we can take responsibility for things without taking blame for them. And there are, I mean, work, I do parenting work. Clearly I think if people make tweaks to their parenting that things could get better. So yeah, there are things we do as parents that help or don't help. And I'm guilty of the same. I've done things that have not been good as a parent.

Matthew Darrah (1:00:44)

taking blame for them.

think if people make tweaks to their parenting, that things could get better. So yeah, there are things we do as parents that help or don't help, and I'm guilty of the same. I've done things that have not been good as a parent.

And that's different. Taking responsibility for something and seeing what you could do different is not the same thing as taking the blame for it. And I believe that for us,

Robyn (1:01:04)

And that's different. Taking responsibility for something and seeing what you could do different is not the same thing as taking the blame for it. And I believe that for us,

and I believe that for parents who've hurt their kids profoundly, and I believe it for the kids too.

Matthew Darrah (1:01:16)

And I believe that for parents who've hurt their kids profoundly, I believe for the kids too. Because,

I mean, there's a huge percentage of kids that end up in care ⁓ whose parents were in care, right? I mean, and it's just...

Robyn (1:01:28)

100%. yeah, people who

are doing well don't hurt their children. It just doesn't work that way. So sometimes we have to absolutely protect those kids and we've got to find them a different family, but we can still see their parents through the same lens, which really makes my nervous system feel better. I don't like walking around with judgment and contempt and...

Matthew Darrah (1:01:36)

Right.

Yeah.

Robyn (1:01:59)

indignation. It feels yucky.

Matthew Darrah (1:02:05)

Man, I am so stinking hot. This episode is probably going to resurface several times ⁓ as we, because it's just, your work is so important and I so want people to... ⁓

Robyn (1:02:09)

you

Matthew Darrah (1:02:19)

to be aware of it. And so thank you so much for taking the time to ⁓ come on and share your heart and your experience. Well, thank you for inviting me and thank you for what you're doing. This is important.

Robyn (1:02:28)

Well, thank you for inviting me and thank you for what you're doing. This is important. You

know, this is so important. So I'm so glad you're doing it and I'm glad I got to be a part of it.

Matthew Darrah (1:02:35)

so important, so I'm so glad you're doing it and I'm glad I got to be a part of

it. I appreciate it. There was a survey last January, January 2024, I was still working full time and running this nonprofit in my quote unquote free time, ⁓ I felt God put it on my heart to start a podcast and I was like, I don't know the first thing about podcasts, what would I even talk about? ⁓ And then I got a hold of a survey that the state did ⁓ in the spring of last year where they asked

families, what are things that you need? You know, what are that if you had to rank and so one of the top things was a place to find out about that families in the Panhandle of Texas asked for was a place to find out about resources Because they're hard to find they're out there but but they're hard to find and so I got the wheels turning and I was like, maybe maybe that's what the podcast is is a place to find

Robyn (1:03:20)

Right? Yes.

Matthew Darrah (1:03:30)

resources but also a place for connection and then a place to point the community to say hey this is foster care this is what it looks like this is what it feels like so ⁓ i'm super grateful for it ⁓ thank you again to Kristy Hood from Farmers Insurance for your sponsorship guys we do placement packages for kids coming into foster care so every kiddo gets a suitcase a bible a teddy bear a bucket toy and a blanket and then whatever else they need ⁓ so it could be clothes and diapers and

Robyn (1:03:34)

Yeah. Yes.

Matthew Darrah (1:03:59)

shoes and socks and underwear and all the things and every family gets a copy of this book. And so ⁓ in order to make that happen for the families across the 26 counties of the Panhandle, which Robyn check this out, that's the 26 counties of the Panhandle. You know how big Texas is, a lot of people don't. That's the size of West Virginia.

Robyn (1:04:15)

Mm-hmm. Yes, Yeah.

Matthew Darrah (1:04:20)

Right? So that's

we're covering a huge area. So it's not uncommon for us to drive to two and a half hours to deliver a placement package to a family within 24 hours of when that kid gets placed. So we can't do that without your support. And so we ask for folks to be a placement package partner. Hundred dollars a month buys us all the clothes we need for a placement package. Fifty dollars ⁓ buys us a case of diapers and ten dollars a month buys us one outfit a month. And so if you're if you're interested

Robyn (1:04:28)

Yep.

Matthew Darrah (1:04:50)

You can go to our website Panhandleorphan.org slash donate and you can sign up to be a placement package partner We've got our trade wars fundraiser that's coming up in October If you're interested in more on that go to our website panhandleorphan.org and you can find out more about that ⁓ Again, thanks again. So stinking much Robyn for coming on the podcast and and we'll have you guys have a great day

Robyn (1:05:15)

Thank you.