Holding Space: A Foster Care Series on Grief Part 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwltq9Ylmk8

Matt Darrah (00:00)

Podcast Disclaimer The information shared in this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional mental health advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Although a licensed therapist may be participating in this discussion, no therapist-client relationship is being formed by listening to this podcast. If you are experiencing a mental health concern, please seek help from a qualified, licensed mental health professional in your area.

Do not disregard professional advice or delay seeking care based on something you have heard on this podcast. If you are in crisis or believe you may be in danger, please call 911 or contact your local emergency services immediately, or reach out to the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by dialing or texting 988. Content and Trigger Warning This episode contains discussions of sensitive topics that may be distressing or triggering for some listeners, including but not limited to mental health challenges, trauma,

and other emotionally intense subjects. Listener discretion is advised. Please take care of yourself while listening. If you begin to feel uncomfortable or overwhelmed, consider pausing or stopping the episode and returning to it at a later time, or choosing not to continue. If this content brings up concerns for you, consider reaching out to a trusted support person or a licensed mental health professional. If you are in immediate distress or crisis,

Please contact 911 or the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by dialing or texting 988

Matt Darrah (01:27)

Hello and welcome to All Things Foster, a place for coffee, connection, and community. Guys, we've been hitting kind of hard on a pretty heavy topic around grief in foster care. It's a real thing and it's a tough thing, but there is hope for that. So just keep going through with us. We're gonna talk to some folks ⁓ one more time that have some experience in.

foster care and adoption and with some grief. But guys, before we get to that, this episode is brought to you by Kindred Construction. If you've ever dealt with roof damage or insurance claims, you know how overwhelming that process can be. And that's where Bracken Hoekstein with Kindred Construction really stands out. Bracken is incredibly responsive, easy to work with, and brings a ton of knowledge, especially when it comes to roofing.

and helping navigate insurance claims. He knows how to advocate for homeowners and helps make sure insurance companies do what they're supposed to do, taking a lot of that stress off your plate. Kindred Construction offers a wide range of services from roofing and repairs to full construction projects, all with a focus on quality work and strong relationships. If you've got questions about your roof or think you might have damage, don't wait.

Give Bracken a call at 806-341-6205. That's 806-341-6205. That's Kindred Constructions, trusted work, done right, with people you can count on. Well, ladies, thank you guys for coming back here and recording with us another time. Let's just do a quick introduction again. Remind everybody who we are. So Laura, why don't you go ahead and start? Yeah, I'm Laura Bounds.

licensed professional counselor and I've worked in child and services field for about 15 years. I am currently working with Cal Farley's Boys Ranch and I really enjoy it. think that it's an honor to be able to support kids and their parents and families. so, yeah, I'm excited to be here with you guys. Absolutely. Okay. Amanda. I'm Amanda Rogers. I also work at Cal Farley's Boys Ranch as the marketing and communications director.

So I get to work with the kids and tell their stories, promote Cal Farley's, the good work we do there, that kind of thing. My background is in journalism originally, so I'm also a foster adoptive parent. So my professional career is like the best of both worlds. I get to mix what I know about kids from hard places with communications and it's just a real great gig.

My name is Diane Ridgway and I am the director of transitional and supervised independent living with Amarillo Children's Home. I'm also a former house parent and then I kinship adopted my son and then private adopted my daughter. Very cool, very cool. Well, thank you guys. I say that. Thank you ladies for coming. Thank you all for coming and really for kind of.

being vulnerable and honest and sharing with us last week some of the tough stuff around grief when it comes to foster care. And Laura's kind of just been guiding us through this whole conversation the last four weeks. And so thank you for that too. Yeah, I'm excited to share this segment and kind of talk about hope and integration. Yeah, absolutely. There's one piece that we...

haven't hit on yet that I'd like for us to hit on before we get to the hope piece. Hope, there is hope, there's healing after grief and things like that, but there is a problem when it comes to grief when we avoid it. Can you kind of talk us through that a little bit?

Yeah, I think something that is so important as related to grief is being able to fill those fillings. So avoided grief is when we're pushing those fillings down, not realizing that they're not going to disappear, right? They just come out in different ways. And so that can be that they come out in ⁓ utilizing unhealthy coping mechanisms. You know, it can be that they come out in

getting upset with someone that you normally wouldn't or at a conversation that you normally wouldn't have gotten upset with, but you are so...

You know, overwhelmed, your mind is overwhelmed with feelings and emotions that you're not dealing with, right? Something else that sometimes happens to people when they're not dealing with the feelings that they need to feel is that they become isolated. And so they are just kind of avoiding everybody and everyone not wanting to talk about things. And that can be just as difficult. so we, we want for people to fill with their feeling and talk about their feelings. It's important not

just, you know, in counseling, but also utilizing that support network that you have. There are some caregiver screeners that can be done just to kind of measure where you're at as far as compassion fatigue. Sometimes we'll use what's called the ProQOL. It's P-R-O-Q-O-L. And it's really helpful in measuring kind of how you're doing with, we've all heard the word burnout, right? And emotional burnout.

that type of thing. So, compassion fatigue is an issue because once you get to that point, it's really difficult to get back to where you were. There's a lot of reasons to feel what you're feeling, but I would say not getting to the point of compassion fatigue would be really important. There's also a secondary trauma scale that we can do on caregivers as well. I don't think everybody understands secondary trauma very well.

We all have heard sad stories and we all have heard very difficult things, right? But I don't think we always understand the impact that that has on our body and our brain. And so we actually will see physiological effects from hearing difficult circumstances that have happened to people or even watching the news sometimes can be a form of hearing something that your body's like, whoa, what, you know, and being able

to kind of fill those emotions and those feelings so that they don't come out in other ways is really important. Sure. I would say one of the most important things for foster parents and caregivers is to kind of monitor their emotional state. Take an inventory every now and then. Check in with someone that you know cares about you and kind of, you know, tell them how you're feeling. And if you're in therapy, being able to utilize counseling as an outlet because your counselor

will let you know. And that's important, you know. I think also being able to take a break without guilt. All of us feel guilty when we take a break, right? I mean, I think even people who work at offices, when they go and take an extra long lunch, they may feel a little bit of guilt. And so it's kind of like that in parenting. We feel like if we're not there for everything, if we're not, you know, able to tend to every need, sometimes that does exist.

ignite

some guilt in some of us. so being able to kind of take control of that and realize that we do need breaks as parents. We do need breaks when we're in difficult circumstances. We need breaks when things are going well. it's just a healthy thing to be doing. One of the things that I think happens to a lot of families, specifically caregivers in foster care, is there is this belief, I'm okay, I don't need help. I'm okay, I can do this. I'm going to be fine.

So by the time they do reach that point where they actually make an appointment with maybe a therapist or their physician or whatever they might be going through, it's

too late and they might be at a crisis point. And so when you're doing that inventory just on your emotional health, making sure that you're seeking support early so that you're not waiting until something becomes a crisis. And then, you know, we always want to watch for concerning red flags, right? So within ourselves, when we're going through something hard, tough, when we're going through, you know, the emotions associated with grief.

if we wanna watch out for any irritability that we may be feeling or someone may let us know that they're kind of seeing that in us or any numbness that we may be feeling and then especially withdrawal because we don't want for people to isolate themselves. We've hit on this in previous segments but community is so important. Support is so important. Feeling like someone can relate to you or you can relate to them is so important and it can be very healing.

specifically in the grief process. So I think as a professional, something that is important to me for families that I would be working with would be to assess their caregiver capacity regularly and talk to them about it and be open about what they may be feeling and being able to give them information and psychoeducation to help them through that. Because I think when we know

when we know about

what we're going through and maybe when you're in the clinical setting, having someone explain it to you and talk through signs and symptoms and those types of things, it just makes you feel better. It's like when you go to the doctor and something's wrong and you don't know what it is, but they're able to run tests and say, hey, this is what it is, you feel relief because you know what it is. And so that's important. And then of course,

We want to make sure that, you know, we are reminding people of, you know, services in our community. So support groups, if they also have a church family, if they have friendships that, you know, they've made through the process within their agency or just within, you know, the foster care and adoption circle and being able to talk about those things. Because if we don't talk about it, I mean, I think we've learned through

through the process of this segment, how this affects everyone and just normalizing that it is something that we need to bring awareness to. For sure, for sure. Are you aware of like a self-inventory tool?

where they can go in and answer, you know, five, 10 questions and kind of get some feedback on that? Or is that really just something that needs to be done in a professional setting? It can be done in the professional setting. I could definitely share some and you could share them. Yeah, definitely. If you've got some that, send them to me and we'll them in the show notes. I will. But I do think, you know, it's important for all of us in any situation to kind of take an inventory of how we're doing. I don't think we have to

wait

until we're in, you know.

hard times, I think that it's important to kind of gauge how we're doing daily and then reach out if we're needing something from others. Again, it is always okay to ask for help. And that's what really community friendship, relationships, that's really what that's all about. You know, I'm gonna put this out there, and you guys have probably seen it, but I know that it's a wave, right? When you get a placement,

you're super excited, you're bringing this kid away and you love them, you're connecting with them and all the things. And then it hurts when they leave. And so I think along with this, rather than taking a breath to feel the grief.

They're like, well, just bring me another kiddo. And then it kind of stacks. And so the grief just kind of comes and it gets heavier and heavier and heavier until you get to a point where you just break. But I think that that's one way that I've seen foster parents almost sabotage themselves because they don't, it is painful when they leave. You hear these people out in the world that are like, well,

I mean, I could never let them go. I could never do that, because I could never let them go, which the implication is you must not love them the same way. When in truth, it breaks your heart. And so rather than sitting in that grief, you're like, I'll take another kid up. And it's kind of twofold, because they...

On the one hand, they're in this work because they want to make an impact and help families, help kiddos. But at the same time, I think it's in the short term easier to accept the next placement and be excited and connecting there than it is to sit in that grief. Because it's uncomfortable and nobody likes to feel uncomfortable. I always think about, you know, times where

We tell people.

who are coming on to be caregivers in foster care and adoption, you're supposed to get attached. But then, you know, the feelings that come with getting attached don't feel good when that child leaves because we miss them. And I always go back to, you know, the Winnie the Pooh quote, how lucky am I to have something that makes saying goodbye so hard. But also, feeling grief doesn't mean something is wrong with you. It means that something mattered.

That's so true. Did you all see what I was talking about where it's like, well, I don't want to be sad, so just bring another kid. Yeah, or I think... ⁓

that we haven't really talked a lot about just adoptive parent guilt or foster parent guilt. Yeah. If it doesn't work out. know, if you're not able to meet their needs and they move on or they're adults and they move on, you know, that guilt that you feel or shame is compounded because people don't understand that. And so I think it's so important to surround yourself with a community that does understand it. I think everyone should get themselves a Laura.

in their lives because she's a great help. I mean, just having someone that understands that loss ⁓ is important. I mean, just a funny story, but my son was about two years old and he fell walking into our house.

I accidentally bumped him, he fell. And he hit his mouth and then he was crying and then he had an accident and I'm putting him in the bathtub and I just fall apart. And I just, some friends at the, I've lived at the ranch, some friends at the ranch picked me up and took me to dinner and they just said, Diane regular parent guilt is enough.

quit having adoptive parent guilt. Because I was really like, well, you wanted this baby and you have to do everything perfect and all of that. And really I just get to be a human and foster parents just to get to be parents. mistakes are gonna happen and just...

just surrounding yourself with people that get that. Yeah, I think that's so important because what I experienced a lot of was kind of the opposite of people that got it, right? Like we were so excited when we found our girls and I had told someone at church and they said, well, that's great for you and your husband, but what about your daughter that's at home? Have you thought about her at all? And I was like, yeah, yeah. We thought a lot about that. Or when things got hard, I had a supervisor tell me once, well, this is what you signed up for. And you know, but like all parents sign up for that, right?

adopted or not. Like we can't control if our kids born to us or not are going to have issues or substance abuse issues or psychiatric issues. Like that's beyond our control. That's genetics, it's trauma, it's brain, it's all the things, right? And we tend to put that all on ourselves. And I certainly did. And it is when things don't work out, you feel this shame and you think, well, and you hear all those things, you know, that's all you hear instead of the you did the right thing or this is what you had to do. Or, you know, I had a wonderful mentor tell me like,

before you are only bad options, you have to pick the best of the bad options. You know what you need to do, it's just really hard to do. And that was helpful, especially when your brain is in this sea of like, I guess we didn't love them hard enough, or I guess we didn't try hard enough. It's just really hard because that's what you feel. then talking about avoiding the grief, so then you just stuff that down and just try to keep going. Because you've got kiddos at home that rely on you. You have a job you have to go to, and life doesn't stop, right? Like when my parents died,

You

know had a week or two well life doesn't stop the same way you know and and even then life doesn't stop like you have to keep going and So in any kind of grief like the world keeps spinning and so you have to figure out how to to just keep existing in it and sometimes You're avoiding the grief, and it's gonna catch up with you eventually and even when you face it That's that's hard, but finding the people that will stand by you. You know maybe in the moment. We didn't have those people but

I found Laura. Laura's my good friend and I have other good friends and people that understand like Diane, it's it's hard because we feel like we can't say all the things sometimes and you know I thank you earlier for giving us this space because as a foster adoptive parent who's been through hard things it can be hard to want to share our story. I've told Laura for a while now like I don't advocate anymore really because I just don't have it in me to advocate you know I'm experiencing my grief I'm healing I don't have it in me to advocate so this is really the first time I've sat down and talked about

about it really at all. But it's been healing and it's been good because I have supportive people around me who understand. And this audience is an audience who needs to hear the things when I didn't hear the things. Like I want somebody else to hear the thing. Right? And so if somebody else feels better because they heard the thing, you know, when I didn't, that's worth it. And not, you know, invading my children's privacy or their story or anything. Like we can share in a respectful way. Right. Yeah. You know, it's...

There is kind of this thought process that, man, if I just love this child enough that you know we can solve any of these problems. And that's just not the case. I mean, it's just not. You love them with every ounce of your being and sometimes...

They need more support than what you can give. They need more professional support or whatever it is. I was talking with a counselor one time about a young man and he was like, some young, kiddos, family is just not safe. And they can't manage being in a family.

They need, they've got to do some work to get to that situation where they can manage that and stuff like that. so we have to be cognizant, I think, of the fact that yes, we can love them and sometimes we can't give them what they need and feel...

grief that you couldn't do that, but at the same time not take all the responsibility for that. Well, and somebody told me that when we went through difficult time with our daughter, and I really chose not to listen to it because I was in my own grief and shame, right? But they told me like what you did was brave and that's ultimate love. Yeah. Like doing the hard thing, knowing that there would be shame and that people would judge us and not understand.

doing the right thing by what she needed was love. You know, sometimes love looks like...

giving someone space or getting someone help or letting them go a different path. That's love. And I've come to realize that now. All the services that one of my kiddos has had, at some point, she's an adult now, and at some point she's going to have to decide if she wants those services or if she wants to use those tools or what she's going to do with her adult life. We've given her all the tools and of course there's going to be bitterness on her end because she can't see it from our perspective, right? We can't make people see

the reason we did things or make them listen. All we can control is ourselves. That's one thing that's really helped me is codependency no more, codependent no more. That book was a life changer for me in learning that I can't control how other people view things or accept things or react to things. All I can control is me. And I know from my perspective that we did the very best we could by our kids, even if they can't understand it or don't agree. That's all we can do at the end of the day. And to live with myself, I know that I did

what I could at the time with what I had available to me. And so I think, you know, anyone out there who's listening that needs that help, codependent no more is a lifesaver, but it helps you see like, you know, we can only control so much. You know, like you said, if love was the magic key, these kids would be, you know, awesome, right? Everybody would be in a great place and we'd all be holding hands and going to church together every Sunday and it would just be...

Awesome, every day. But that's not life. And we can't control other people or what they do or how their brains have developed. We just can't. And so you have to let yourself off the hook and take care of yourself and do what you have to do, not only for yourself, but for the other people who rely on you. My daughter is 15. She's very self-aware and cognizant. And she will point out like...

you've lost your joy, mom, what's going on or whatever. was telling Laura this weekend, she told me, my daughter told me I need more whimsy in my life. You know, and I need listen to that because she sees that in me and she can't control whether I do that or not, right, but she's telling me I need to listen, you know, that we need to just can't control what other people do and, you know, we just have to take care of ourselves.

One attitude that I think I developed early on in the 1900s when I worked in presidential treatment was that... Because that was so long ago. Whatever reason...

Whatever reason, I didn't pick how you got here, but for whatever reason, God put you here with me right now and we're going to do the best we can. And I have to go back and remember that throughout the years. For whatever reason, here we are. And so let's do the best that we can with today. And I agree with that. And that kind of goes into we're going to talk about hope. I often tell people because people will say, well, how do you know you're ready to do it? And I say, well, you don't. Like, if you wait till you're ready, you're never going to do anything.

and you just have to do it scared. But also, God calls us to do hard things. God does not call us to do easy things. And I think a lot of times when we talk about foster care and adoption, we get this idea that we're called to do it biblically and we're gonna do it and God's gonna pave the way and it's all gonna work out. And that is just not life. And God does not promise that to us either.

most things that God calls people to are very, very hard. And we have to remember that, that, you know, we truly feel like God called us to adopt older kids who might not have been adopted otherwise. Like, we felt that call, right? And people thought we were crazy for adopting teenagers, right? Like, the looks we got, it was just, and for good reason, but...

That's what we felt like we were called to do. And when we met our kids, we're like, yeah, those are the kids. And we still feel that way. And now, you you can look back at it and I can forgive myself for not being perfect, for doing the things, you know, but also realize that that's what God called us to do. And as I said in the last episode, like we don't get to see on this side of heaven the impact. So we don't get to know, we don't get a little sheet at the end and it says, what all, look at all the little check boxes you ticked off. Look what happened to these kids because you were around.

we only see what we can see now, right? And so we have to just believe that God called us to it and he used us in his plan and that's it. We just have to trust it. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so let's look at hope. Let's talk about hope. There...

have grief in all the litany of different ways that we've talked about, but there's hope for healing, for moving beyond grief, you know, kind of get us started there. What is that? Well, I think it can look different for...

everyone and one thing that I would say is you know, we talk a lot about loving our children, right? And I think one of the ultimate acts of love is making sure that they're safe, you know, and so there's some situations where, you know, we look at the fact that they are just having a hard time or they need additional help. And I really do think that, you know, it's important to just think about that in terms of hope because

is hope can look like a child getting services that maybe were difficult to get, but they need it, you know, or,

being able to be somewhere where they have additional support and being able to thrive in that environment. I know that it is difficult just talking about grief and all the situations that we've kind of ⁓ talked about along the way. I don't know that anybody does this for any other reason, but because they love children after kind of discussing all of the things that come with that, right?

or that they have a passion for caring for children or you know being able to provide a loving environment for a child and so ⁓ when you look at at the end of a journey whatever that might look like adoption or it may be a reunification which is to be celebrated ⁓ or you know the child ⁓ graduates from school and becomes an adult.

those are all very hopeful things. Those are things that we can be excited about. Those are things that we can celebrate and really just be thankful for. So I think in terms of, you know, I think just deciding to sign up for foster care and adoption.

knowing ahead of time that there will be difficult emotions, there will be challenging situations, there will be times that you will really, really wonder why you did this, but then seeing from the other side, you know, kind of the positives that have happened.

And I'm sure you guys have had lots of positives. mean, I've heard a lot of different stories just in terms of, you know, great things happening in the home and with the kiddos and all of those, those fun times. Yeah. I mean, my kids, I love my kids and we have, we do have a lot of fun memories and things, but I think one thing that we can remember is that there's also hope in what's now.

Right? So even though we're estranged from our two older daughters who were adopted, our daughter born to us is still in the home. And you know, was the three of us before they came and it's the three of us now. You know, she was an only child until she was seven and now she's an empty nester child at 15, which is very unique. You know, like, yay her. And for a while, it took us a long time to be comfortable with it being the three of us again. You know, we felt a guilt and we felt like this grief of they're not here with us. But we have kind of come full

cycle now that we've all kind of done our own healing and gotten to a place where we're comfortable at being the three of us again. Like if it's healthy and happy for the girls to be with us that's lovely, but we can have Christmas just the three of us and be

hopeful in that and we can have a great time and remember what it's like being the three of us and we have talked about you know our family talks about a lot of things and my daughter's very mature for her age and she will talk about how she's glad she went through those harder times and she's glad that she went through those things and you know she's sad for us to see you know how we were treated in some things but she's glad that we did it because we helped people and that's our family no matter what happens that's our family and that she feels like it it made her a better person it made her more empathetic it

made her, you know.

not so closed off into what's going on in the world, you know, that kids have real issues and then that some of them, you know, are unhoused or some of them don't get enough food or abused or whatever. And she got to see that firsthand. And not only did she get to love her sisters and they got to love her, but she got to see the hard parts. And that has made her, you know, a better person. You know, she really sees a difference between her and her peers because she's kind of gone through the fire in some of that.

stuff right and we heard negative comments about that too my gosh you're putting your daughter through this you're traumatizing her okay but she has become such a unique and strong individual because of this yeah and she can also hold a relationship with her sisters that's separate from us because we've given that to them so there's hope in that right like she still has her sisters in that relationship even though it's not what we'd want it to look like but there's hope for the three of us because a situation that really could have broken us as a family in a lot of ways

And instead it really made us stronger because we stayed together and we helped each other through it Yeah, and so that's where I find a lot of hope on my hard days, know Mother's Day is coming up. You know by the time this airs is probably gonna have just passed but With Mother's Day that can be real hard a lot of grief, right? But the hope is that I love my my girls, you know They're they're alive and well and I get to celebrate with my daughter that was born to me and she loves me and she wants me to have a good day You know, like there's hope in that

We always plant flowers on Mother's Day. That's what we do ever since my mom died. And so like we plant those flowers and we think of the girls and we think about all the things and you know it doesn't have to even though it doesn't look like the way we wanted to we still have a life to live and we still have love to give and we create new memories you know and if we're all back together one day then we can share those stories you know well you weren't here but you missed this and it was so funny or tell me about that time you went on that date or whatever you know we were gonna have stories to share that will bring

as hope again. Sure. And I think in my experience, something that brings me hope and my kids love, I think, I don't know, they talk about it some, but I have an aunt and uncle that adopted and they have a child that adopted kids that are my kids age and then my family also adopted. And so for all of us, it's just kind of a family what we do. don't know. It really wasn't planned. it wasn't planned.

It wasn't, I think it's contagious. You know, just seeing the joy that, and all of those situations have been hard situations. But just the blessings that come out of it always outweigh the grief. Like, I don't know that you would meet...

Adoptive and I hope this is true, but I foster adopt family that would say I wouldn't do it again You know even when they're hard. Yeah, people ask me that all the time Would you do it again and those are my kids like that's an impossible question to ask like I know it's hard but you know we gave them a life and safety for however long we could and it taught us all something and we we love them and I mean they're my they're my kids. You know I don't think you know if you have a child who was born to you that has an

or something like, we don't word it the same way. We don't say like...

Do you wish you hadn't had that kid? And so in fostered adoption, really should be no different. And that's where I get frustrated is the language that we use with foster adoptive parents, because we don't use the same language. Even in the work we do, we talk about families whose children are either at boys' ranch or a different place. But a lot of times when talking about adoptive children who are in those situations, we say they came from a broken adoption. And that's not OK. We're families. And somebody asked me, well, how

would you qualify? I said I wouldn't. I would just say they're an adopted family. If you have to say they're adopted, they're from an adopted family, but it's not broken. A lot of times you seek those services because you want to repair things, not because it's broken. And so I think that's something that it gives me hope is that the language is changing and the way we think about it's changing because things that

that people say to adoptive and foster parents, you would never say to a parent who had trouble with a biological child. And that's where I get passionate is about how we treat those parents because I have both, right? And things people say to me about my daughter born to us is not what they say to us about our other daughters. And that's just, I mean, there are all three of my kids. They just came to us differently, right? And they have different needs. You can have...

four children born to you and they all have different needs and personalities. And so I think that's what we need to remember and hope is that it's a family. However they came to be, it's a family and they're gonna face challenges but all families face challenges. And some families have really, really big challenges and they all came together biologically. Yeah, I'm part of a group. ⁓

And this is kind of a new thing that I've been learning about is pans and pandas, which is a neurological issue around strep throat of all things. And so you've got kiddos that are biological that have developed a neurological issue because of getting strep throat of all things. And guess what?

They have lot of the same struggles as lot of the foster families in the same group do. so, mean, you know, here's one thing I think that we've talked about a little bit about, but I think it'd be helpful to talk a little bit more on, is while there's grief today for the scenario being the way that it was, that's not the end. It's not necessarily the end. I mean, there's always...

hope that at some point down the road there's more healing that's able to happen, there is a reconnection that's able to happen. And so, just because things are tough today because of something that's happened, whatever the something is, there is hope down the road that there's ability to have further...

healing and connection too. Well, and we don't know, you know, what our children take from us, right? So even if I'm not reconnected with my children anytime soon, I don't know, like, if they get married or if they have children, what they're going to take from me, right? Like, maybe they are going to stop a cycle or maybe they're going to parent their children a certain way because I taught them how to. You know, maybe they're going to have a healthier relationship because I taught them how to. You know, when they were in this cycle before of abuse and neglect, you know, hopefully the short time I spent

with them, they'll remember some of that and whether they want a relationship with me or not. Hopefully we gave them some seeds that were planted and they will have a better future for their children and then hopefully their children will have a better future. We don't get to see that, like I said, but there's that hope in that even if we don't get to have the relationship we want, maybe we have helped the next generation be better. Maybe we've helped their kids have a better life.

that, yeah, you we don't get to see on the other side and down the road and things. so, you know, I think at some point, hopefully we'll get to see the impact of our life on the world. But ultimately, you know.

Wouldn't it be great if you could just have a slideshow that showed you all the things that you did and you could just have a really feel-good session and you know but that we don't get you know as a marketing person I would love that like ⁓ let me show you all the great things but we don't get that and I just have to believe that our actions matter and you we just don't I mean it could be you run into a person at the grocery store you don't know and you tell them they had you know they look beautiful and that might shape their whole day because they had a bad day we don't know it's the same thing with our kids you know because I showed them love and care and

listen to them and sat with them on the floor where they cried on Easter, they're gonna be more patient with their kids. They're gonna remember that instead of sliding into what they were taught originally, they will have more patience and kindness and affect their kids and then maybe their kids won't have that cycle of trauma and abuse and neglect and it goes on and the world's a better place for it. Maybe, I don't know.

I think also being willing to tell your story, being able to talk about hard things, because we are breaking some of the barriers that there is to people communicating about something that is tough, you know? And I think that that is beautiful in, you know, we talk about changing a child's trajectory, but I don't think we talk enough about

being open so that we can change someone else who is in the same situation that maybe we were in at some time. know? It's special. So there's a lot of different avenues, I think, to find hope. I mean, there's hope in healing from the grief that we've gone through, but there's hope in... ⁓

and the fact that we've made some sort of impact in those kiddos' lives that came into our lives for a period. There are, there's lots of different ways, I think, to have hope around this subject of grief. Well, and I think it all starts with hope, right? I don't think any of us sign up to do it because we're like...

Well, this is going to be hard and let's just throw a shot in the dark. Like we think hope, like we can impact a child's life. And for us, like I said before, we felt called to it. Well, if we hadn't answered that call, that was seven years ago. I might be sitting here today thinking, how should I do it? I've always thought called to do it, but I haven't done it. And then where would my kids that I adopted be? I don't know. I don't know where they would be. But we would still be.

you know, yearning probably. And so we answered the call with hope and now we have hope that, you know, we impacted their lives the best way we could. God's got them. There's some other things that we've missed, when it comes to the hope and healing from grief.

Yeah, I think, you know, we've talked about a lot of really difficult things, but this has probably been the easiest segment to talk about just because we are talking about something that generally feels happy or, you know, gives us some of the good feelings versus the challenging feelings. But I do think, you know, it is so important to realize that you're not alone. You're not alone when things are hard.

and being able to, again, talk about anything that, you know, you may be feeling so that you can continue to work through things, making sure that you are taking care of yourself. Self-care is so important and it does not get enough. I feel like love from people just because it does, like we talked about feeling guilty about taking breaks. We have to take breaks. We have to make sure that we're taking care of ourselves. ⁓ But I think overall,

the most important piece to all of the segments on grief is being able to talk about hard things, not pushing those feelings down because they will come out at some point and being able to be honest about how you're feeling too. Being able to do things that will help you to feel better. So if that is taking a break, you know, if you are a foster parent and you're holding off on placements for a little while while you take care of yourself,

If that is, you're having a situation going on that you really feel like you need to loop in professional help, doing that and following that step through, attending trainings on things that you wanna learn more about. ⁓ And then just being there for others too that are going through situations and we're all in this together. We are a community that wants to help.

And so we shouldn't be afraid to talk about things that are hard. So true. So true. Well, is there anything, we haven't talked about as far as when it comes to having hope in this situation? Can you guys think of anything?

I don't think so. think it's just been a really nice conversation. And like I said, it all starts with hope and we just have to remember to hold on to hope. And like I said before, even if we have to have a loved one, hold on to that hope for us and just say, it's OK if you're having a bad day, if you need to be down. But I believe this is going to get better for you. ⁓ taking that self-care. And self-care to some people may look like getting their nails done or something like that. To me,

My favorite self-care day is when my husband takes my daughter out of town for the day, like to Lubbock or something, just so can have the house all to myself. So I don't have to listen to stories about Pokemon or whatever she's into at the moment. And I don't have to like...

And I always feel guilty even when I take a nap because I'm like, not here and I'm taking a nap. my gosh, I should be using my time. But that's self-care too, right? And so, yeah, and so just having, that's the best way that my husband and daughter can love on me is if they just go away for the day because they know I need that time alone to recharge and I rarely get it.

and I'm a marketing communications person, so I'm talking and listening all the time. that's really not what I need as a person. I need quiet to recharge. So when they say, hey, we're going to go to Lubbock for the day, and maybe all they do is go to H-E-B and come back, but they love road trips, so it's fun for them, and it gives me the day off. And to be OK with that, that's my kind of self-care, and to let them do it. OK, we're going to have that day.

And self care for me would be to go to Lubbock to go to HEB Okay. love HEB They need to make, they need to build one here. my hope would be that people listening to this would not be scared away, you know, to answer the call, to just take risk and jump in.

There's people around if you'll just look that are willing to talk you through anything. And so just, you know, I want to give them hope.

So it's kind of a heavy topic. It is heavy, But the rewards greatly outweigh. Regardless of the end, all of here today is how we wouldn't do anything different. Absolutely. I've always kind of been a jump in with both feet kind of person. even though my parents died, my parents passed, and then we decided to get our foster license, and people thought we were crazy. But it's like I said, I didn't want to sit here seven years later and go, well, what if

what did we miss? Because we were called to that moment. I truly feel like our children were meant to be our children, not some other kids, right? And so if we had waited, we would have missed out on that. And maybe that wasn't the call to take in other kids. I don't know. I'm not up there. I don't know. I don't get to pull the strings and see what's going on. But I don't get my slideshow of all the things I did right. But I think that if you feel the call, do it right. Have a good support system. Be prepared.

But have that hope that, you know, know that it's going to be hard, but just do it because you don't want to be here years later and think, well, what would have happened if we, you know, because there's children who need hope and healing and, you know, even through the trauma, you can't.

Like I said earlier, you can't do anything about how people react or how people are going to take things, but you can only do what you do. And if you have a heart and a home to do this, then you should. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yes, it's a hard thing, but there's also a lot of... ⁓

goodness around it. And I think we're called as believers to care for widows and orphans. mean, that's James 1.27 is our guiding verse. And I think that it's such an important work that even on the hard days that we still do it. for sure. Well, ladies, thank you all so much for the time that it's taken to put these out and to record these.

Laura putting the outlines together for us and kind of really having that background of knowledge and things to...

to just kind of point us in the right direction. I appreciate your time on that and everything. And ladies, I'm super grateful that y'all willing to come on here and be open and be honest and share and hope that it impacts and influences somebody else who's out there that's listening that's.

That's needing some hope and some healing. thank you, Matt. Absolutely. Well, guys, thanks again to Bracken for sponsoring this episode. Bracken is just a great, great guy. ⁓ And so if you need help with the roofs, definitely hit them up.

at Kindred Construction. And guys, our main thing is placement packages. We provide placement packages to kiddos when they're coming into foster care. So every kiddo gets a suitcase, a Bible, a teddy bear, a book, toy, and a blanket. And then over and above that, it's clothes and diapers and car seats and bottles and formula and all the things. Like every placement package is customized to the specific needs of that specific.

specific child in that specific family at that time. And we deliver those to the 26 counties of the Panhandle So we need help in order to be able to get to where every kiddo

is able to get a placement package in the 26 counties of the Panhandle, about 600 of those. We need help getting there. So $100 a month as a placement package partner buys us all the clothes we need for one placement package and $50 buys us a case of diapers, 10 bucks buys us an outfit. maybe you wanna be a volunteer and deliver placement packages or maybe you say, know what, I don't have the time, I don't have the space, but what I do have is

is 50 bucks a month I can give you. And so if you're interested in doing that, panhandleorphan.org slash donation. You can set up a ⁓ one-time gift or a monthly gift and all of those things help us to reach more and more kiddos. 161 last year, hopefully 250 this year, with the end result in five years to get to where every kiddo's getting a placement package. think about that.

⁓ as you're kind of going through your life. And guys, again, we talked about some heavy stuff, but there is hope, there is healing, there is goodness and grace. And so if you're needing help and you need to talk to somebody, find somebody, connect with somebody.

talk to somebody because grief is a real thing and we need help navigating it. So please consider reaching out and getting some help if you're in that and need some help. Guys have a great day and we'll see you next time. Thanks.