Healing Through Trauma with Heather Ford

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LpT8ojVFP8

Matt Darrah (00:01)

Hello and welcome to All Things Foster, a place for coffee, connection, and community. Guys, we've got a great guest that's gonna be on with us today, but before we get to her, today's episode is brought to you by Impact Laser Mobility and Recovery, your local wellness and recovery specialist right here in Amarillo. Led by Cassie Haney, an Amarillo native with deep roots in the fitness.

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Heather Ford (01:17)

Thank

Matt Darrah (01:26)

4856 and make sure to tell her you learned about it her on All Things Foster and guys I'll tell you I'd say this many weeks, but ⁓ Cassie has really helped with some of my issues so if you if you have kind of a achy join or something like that definitely Set up a time with her and she she can she can absolutely help you so that brings me to our our guest her name is Heather Ford and

Heather has a new book out that's called The Barbie Pink Walls That Kept My Secrets of Abuse. And she tells the survivor's story of foster care abuse, resilience, and the courage to speak out through storytelling. So thank you guys to our listeners for tuning back in. Just a reminder, we are here to support foster and adoptive families. We want to raise awareness for the needs of

kiddos in foster care and just we want to have an honest conversation about foster care and Heather and I were talking before I hit record and when we were in foster care in the 80s it was different ⁓ and I think we've made headway in making things better but either way we're gonna have a conversation kind of about some tough stuff so just be aware of that.

As we kind of move through this episode. So Heather, thank you so much for coming on today. Thank you for having me. I'm honored. Yeah, I have ⁓ an inkling of what you went through and so ⁓ being willing to just open up and share your experiences, ⁓ you know, it means a lot ⁓ to be willing to

Heather Ford (02:54)

Thank you for having me, honored.

Matt Darrah (03:17)

to do that and so thank you for doing that. So your book came out just a few months ago, or well I guess a couple months ago, right? A couple months ago, yeah. January 31st and it shares the story of how you and your sister kind of navigated foster care and beyond, right? Yep. So tell us, go back to the beginning. How old were y'all when you guys came into foster care?

Heather Ford (03:28)

I'm on the carrier.

Yep.

Yeah, so my sister and I were very young. I was one and my sister was three. To kind of go back forward a little bit, we were born to an alcoholic birth mom and a dad who has special needs. ⁓ I never actually found out that actual diagnosis, but it's not the same as mine.

Matt Darrah (03:47)

⁓ yeah, so my sister and I were very young

⁓ to kind of go back forward a little bit. We were born to an alcoholic birth mom and a dad who has special needs. ⁓ I never actually found out that actual diagnosis, but it's not the same as mine.

Heather Ford (04:13)

The long story made short, my dad gave up his rights halfway through us being in the system. And then our birth

Matt Darrah (04:15)

The long story made short, my dad gave up his rights halfway through us being in the system.

birth mom got her rights terminated after years and years of saying, all right, you're done. And so that's how it all started.

Heather Ford (04:23)

mom got her rights terminated after years and years of saying, all right, you're done. And so that's how it all started.

Matt Darrah (04:34)

And so you so the circumstances revolved around your mom being an alcoholic. Yeah. At the end of the day, it always pointed back to birth mom. ⁓ I mean, she was abusive to my dad, too. So I mean, there are stories that I read.

Heather Ford (04:41)

Basically, yeah. At the end of the day, it always pointed back to birth mom. I mean, she was abusive to my dad too. So, I mean, there are stories that I read in her

Matt Darrah (04:53)

her where she would literally beat him to a bloody pulp with an injured leg. She stood in the line for me to take up eating for me. ⁓ My birth mom was always drunk. There was never a day where she was sober.

Heather Ford (04:53)

where she would literally be into a bloody pulp with an injured leg. She stood in the line for me to take up eating for me. My birth mom was always drunk. There was never a day where she was sober.

Matt Darrah (05:10)

There's times where my sister plotted and planned to call DCF and the cops so we could get out.

Heather Ford (05:10)

There's times where my sister plotted and planned to call DCF and the cops so we could get out. There's

Matt Darrah (05:19)

There's little things little funny things. She would did to get us out of the house Like putting a half a pound of salt and a cake mix That was her way of like we gotta get out of here. Yeah Using red lipstick all over her bathroom white walls. Like that was that stories actually in my

Heather Ford (05:19)

little things, little funny things she did to get us out of the house, like putting a half a pound of salt in a cake mix. That was her way of like, we gotta get out of here. ⁓ Using red lipstick all over her bathroom white walls. that was, that story's actually in my book.

Matt Darrah (05:39)

book. Yeah It's kind of little light-hearted but serious story behind all that and doing that

Heather Ford (05:40)

uh, was kind of a little lighthearted, but serious story behind all that. and doing that is

Matt Darrah (05:48)

is what led someone to call DCF saying these girls have been alone by themselves all day. Melanie's been in and out. And she worked at like at an alcohol store. So we knew who she was. ⁓

Heather Ford (05:48)

what led someone to call DCF saying these girls have been alone by themselves all day. Melanie has been in and out. Um, and she worked at like an at an alcohol store. So we knew what she was. Um,

And at that time of all those instances, I was two and my sister was three. So ⁓ my sister was creative in how she got us out.

Matt Darrah (06:05)

And at that time of all those instances, I was two and my sister was three. ⁓ my sister was creative in how she got us out.

Very creative. And I had her back. I was like, you're good. And then obviously my sister got in trouble. And then my birth mom choked her with bar soap as a punishment. And DCF cops came in. Somebody had called.

Heather Ford (06:16)

Very creative. And ⁓ I had her back. I was like, you're good. ⁓ And then obviously my sister got in trouble. And then my birth mom choked her with bar soap as a punishment and DCF when cops came in. So somebody had called.

And then from there began the journey of eight years in and out of foster care. Visitations with birth mom, ⁓

Matt Darrah (06:35)

And then from there began the journey of eight years in and out of foster care. Visitations with birth mom.

Heather Ford (06:43)

they were very strict with her, supervised, never alone. ⁓ Dad had supervised for a little bit, although it wasn't very long. As long as he was with my grandparents, he was fine. He was totally fine. There was no...

Matt Darrah (06:43)

They were very strict with her supervise. Sure. Never alone. Dad had supervised for a little bit, although it wasn't very long. As long as he was with my grandparents, he was fine. He was totally fine. There was no

Heather Ford (06:57)

other issues or anything like that. But they were making him jump through the hoops as far as like, want your daughters back, you got to get a three bedroom house, you got to get two jobs. ⁓

Matt Darrah (06:57)

other issues or anything like that. But they were making him jump through the hoops as far as like, want your daughter's back. You've got to get a three bedroom house. You've got to get two jobs.

And that's still kind of the rule with DCF. like you have to, a single parent, especially a male parent, they're gonna make you jump through extra hoops. They're gonna make you find that three bedroom, four bedroom come outs because they don't want siblings sharing rooms. And so my dad was like, okay, and he tried

Heather Ford (07:08)

And that's still kind of the role with DCF is like you have to a single parent, especially a male parent, they're going to make you jump through extra hoops, they're going to make you find that three bedroom, four bedroom house because they don't want siblings sharing rooms. ⁓ And so my dad was like, okay, and he tried.

Matt Darrah (07:26)

and he did the best that he could. But in the 80s, they didn't have that kind of support for men. I got a single father trying to take care of his two daughters, one of them being special needs.

Heather Ford (07:26)

And he did the best that he could. But in the 80s, they didn't have that kind of support for men. Of like, single father trying to take care of his two daughters, one of them being special needs.

So giving all he had at the time, he was like, I can't do this anymore. And I want something better. And so he gave up his rights. And then first mom, her rights were terminated. mean, I remember, I think when I was five, they were terminated.

Matt Darrah (07:37)

So giving off he had at the time, he was like, I can't do this anymore. Sure. And I want something better. he gave up his rights. And then birth mom, her rights were terminated. mean, I remember, I think when I was five, they were terminated.

Heather Ford (07:53)

They were like, you're done. You've refused treatment. You've refused everything. And to the point where she has charges on her files, she would come and kidnap us. It was bad.

Matt Darrah (07:54)

They were like, you're done. You've refused treatment. You've refused everything. And to the point where she has charges on her files, she would come and kidnap us. It was bad.

Heather Ford (08:05)

They would break into the house. She would break into the house. She would kidnap me or my sister or both of us to the point where there was an incident where we came out of the courthouse and she was hiding and lurking and she was drunk.

Matt Darrah (08:05)

they would break into the house. She would break into the house. She would kidnap me or my sister or both of us to the point where there was an incident where we came out of the courthouse and she was hiding and lurking and she was drunk

and we a and my sister was in the front seat, not in a car seat. I was in the back in a car seat and my birth mom literally hit

Heather Ford (08:23)

and we get into a truck and my sister was in the front seat, not in a car seat. I was in the back in a car seat and my birth mom literally hit

a car that hit a car that hit a car that hit us. So it was kind of like a pile up. And when I woke up, I found my sister through the windshield on the ground, not moving, not breathing. And I...

Matt Darrah (08:33)

a car that hit a car that hit a car that hit us. It was kind of like a pile up. And when I woke up, I found my sister through the windshield on the ground, not moving, not breathing. And I

Heather Ford (08:50)

This story is actually in my book to detail. ⁓ And I just remember

Matt Darrah (08:50)

this story is actually in my book to detail. ⁓ And I just remember.

Heather Ford (08:58)

being held by the cop and like reaching down to her, like, let me get to her. And I was two. And I remember this day, like it was yesterday, just holding her hand. She wasn't moving, she wasn't breathing. And there was a SWAT team around us. Like the cops were diligent, they had a SWAT team.

Matt Darrah (08:59)

being held by the cop and like reaching down to her, like, let me get to her. And I was too. And I remember this day, like it was yesterday, just holding her hand. She wasn't moving. She wasn't breathing. And there was a SWAT team around us. Like the cops were diligent. They had a SWAT team.

⁓ They brought us in while the cops were doing their wild goose chase for her. ⁓ They were checking my sister out.

Heather Ford (09:19)

⁓ They brought us in while the cops were doing their wild goose chase for her. ⁓ They were checking my sister out.

She wasn't breathing, wasn't moving. And I just sat next to her holding her hand ⁓ for hours. And then eventually she was trying to talk and the SWAT team came in, the nurses came in. ⁓ This meanwhile, our birth mother was still on the premises trying to hide.

Matt Darrah (09:28)

She wasn't breathing, wasn't moving. And I just sat next to her holding her hand for hours. And then eventually she was trying to talk and the SWAT team came in, the nurses came in. This meanwhile, our birth mother was still on the premises trying to

Heather Ford (09:49)

hide us from her, ⁓ not able to move her neck, not being able to see what was

Matt Darrah (09:49)

hide us from her. Not able to move her neck, not being able to see.

Heather Ford (09:56)

going on, ⁓ not being able to protect her, help her. And eventually she was able to move her neck. ⁓ We were there for like 72 hours and eventually the SWAT team was able to get her and arrest her. So there was a SWAT team. The cops went all out to make sure that we were okay. ⁓ Still a very traumatic day for me.

Matt Darrah (09:56)

what was going on, ⁓ not being able to protect her, her. And eventually she was able to move her neck. ⁓ We were there for like 72 hours and eventually the SWAT team was able to get her and arrest her. So there was a SWAT team. The cops went all out to make sure that we were okay. was still a very traumatic day

Heather Ford (10:17)

I remember that. And then she was back up ordering me

Matt Darrah (10:18)

remember that. And then she was back up ordering.

Heather Ford (10:23)

to do stuff. it was a day. So those are the things that my birth mom would do. And that's just a physical abuse. There was sexual abuse done to me. And then there was just physical, a lot of physical abuse, leaving us home alone for hours and hours and hours and leaving us to cook for ourselves

Matt Darrah (10:23)

me to do stuff. it was it was a day. So those are the things that my birth mom would do. And that's just a physical abuse. There are sexual abuse done to me. And then there was just physical a lot of physical abuse, leaving us home alone for hours and hours and hours and leaving us to cook

Heather Ford (10:44)

⁓ Even during the visitations, the last visitation we had with her was Christmas when I was five.

Matt Darrah (10:44)

Even during the visitation, the last visitation we had with her was Christmas when I was five.

Heather Ford (10:52)

And that was what did it for the judge was like, basically she handed money to her brother-in-law to rape me on Christmas Day. And so my sister walked in, came back into the room and saw me and a puddle of my own blood. ⁓

Matt Darrah (10:52)

And that was what did it for the judge was like, basically she handed money to her brother-in-law to rate me on Christmas day. so my sister walked in, came back into the room and saw me and a puddle of my own blood. ⁓

Heather Ford (11:13)

It was very traumatic for her. And she called the cops

Matt Darrah (11:13)

It was very traumatic for her. And she called the cops.

Heather Ford (11:19)

and the cops came and was like, that's it, you're done. ⁓ And that's as far as I'm gonna go with that. I don't want to go any further into it because it's very traumatic for me, but there was weapons involved. There was money involved. And it was a very bad day. And that was that was the last that was the last.

Matt Darrah (11:20)

and the cops came and was like, that's it, you're done. And that's as far as I wanna go with that. I don't wanna go any further into it. It's very traumatic for me. There was weapons involved, there was money involved. And it was a very bad day. And that was the last. That was the

last. Geez. Yeah, we were in and out of care as well.

And kind of the final straw for us was that my bio mom had left us in a hotel room for like four days. ⁓ And my oldest brother...

you he was not nearly old enough to like take care of us. But that was the last one for us too. And to this day, mean, she is just, I mean, just crazy. Just crazy. So yeah, so I get it. So wow. So you come into foster care and then...

Heather Ford (12:24)

Yeah. I can imagine

Matt Darrah (12:34)

kind of what happens. So after that whole incident, ⁓ we ended up back in another.

Heather Ford (12:37)

So after that whole incident, we ended up back in another home,

not a great one. was basically we were fighting to survive foster parents, foster parents who had a son living with them. And they neglected to inform law enforcement that their son was a registered sex offender. And so...

Matt Darrah (12:44)

great one. is basically we were fighting to survive. ⁓ foster home foster parents, elderly foster parents who had a son living with them. And they neglected to inform law enforcement that their son was a registered sex offender. And so

Heather Ford (13:06)

There were three vivid nights in a row where I was raped by that person ⁓ at gunpoint.

Matt Darrah (13:06)

there were three vivid nights in a row where I was raped by that person.

at gunpoint. And literally my survival was my sister. Nicole moved mountains heaven and earth to make sure that I was safe. That was moving furniture in front of the door that was hiding me under the bed. ⁓ That was making sure that I was eating but making sure that he was gone first

Heather Ford (13:14)

And literally my survival was my sister. Nicole moved mountains, heaven and earth to make sure that I was safe. That was moving furniture in front of the door that was hiding me under the bed. ⁓ That was making sure that I was eating but making sure that he was gone first.

before bringing me downstairs. ⁓ And unfortunately, cops didn't

Matt Darrah (13:34)

before bringing me downstairs. And unfortunately, cops

didn't remove us right away. J.C.F. didn't remove us right away. And the reasoning that I heard was that they couldn't find another placement because I was because of special needs. ⁓ So I had to stay there longer. I did do some research later on in my early 20s just because I remember his name and ⁓

Heather Ford (13:42)

remove us right away. DCF didn't remove us right away. And the reasoning that I heard was that they couldn't find another placement because I was because of special needs. And so I had to stay there longer. ⁓ I did do some research later on in my early 20s just because I remember his name. And ⁓

He is on the registry list in the state of Maine and it does match the age of me, what happens. So he

Matt Darrah (14:04)

he is on the registry list in the state of Maine and it does match the age of me.

Heather Ford (14:12)

was charged. ⁓ But that was just one home. I mean, there were other homes where my sister and I were locked. I was locked in a closet and I was forced to eat cat feces. ⁓ I was forced to sleep outside in the snow and I was in Maine. So.

Matt Darrah (14:12)

He was charged. But that was just one home. Yeah. I mean, there were other homes where my sister and I were locked. I was locked in a closet and I was forced to eat feces. I was forced to sleep outside in the snow and I was in Maine. So

Heather Ford (14:30)

I mean, if y'all have been in Maine and the New East Coast, you know how winters are and it's brutal. And thankfully my sister was able to sneak out of the house and come get me. But ultimately

Matt Darrah (14:31)

if you all have been in Maine, East Coast, you know how winters are. yeah. And thankfully, my sister was able to sneak out of the house and come get me. But.

Ultimately, that home had me removed. So they were home, we would show up and we'd be there for two hours and be gone. And that's just because the foster parents didn't want me because I was special needs, but they wanted my sister or

Heather Ford (14:42)

that home had me removed. So they were home and we would show up and we'd be there for two hours and be gone. And that's strictly because the foster parents didn't want me because I was special needs, but they wanted my sister or.

They were too elderly and they couldn't take care of us. And then our last home, we were there for three and a half years. It was amazing. Really

Matt Darrah (14:59)

they were too elderly and they couldn't take care of us. ⁓ And then our last home, we were there for three and a half years. It was amazing. ⁓

really good home, really good family, really good Christian family. was, my sister and I were the first two in the home ⁓ back in Winterport, Maine. I remember their land and their property very well. And

Heather Ford (15:10)

good home, really good family, really good Christian family. ⁓ was, my sister and I were the first two in the home ⁓ back in Winterport, Maine. I remember their land and their property very well. ⁓ And

Matt Darrah (15:28)

then they brought in the little boy, then they brought in a set of twins. And before we knew it, there was five of us. ⁓

Heather Ford (15:28)

Then they brought in a little boy. Then they brought in set of twins. before we knew it, there was five of us. And

Matt Darrah (15:36)

and it was the best. It was the best three years of our life. We were actually allowed to be kids. Was it perfect? mean, in our eye it was perfect, but they took care of us. We were allowed to care for. We had chores.

Heather Ford (15:36)

it was the best. It was the best three years of our life. We were actually allowed to be kids. Was it perfect? mean, in our eye, it was perfect. But they took care of us. We were allowed to care for. We had chores.

You know, we had rules, had chores ⁓ basic chores know, the simple things. We were cared for. Our Christmas is

Matt Darrah (15:55)

You know, we had rules, had chores, basic chores, know, the simple things. We were cared for. Our Christmases,

Heather Ford (16:04)

off the rocker. Like, you can, we had everything that we could want. ⁓ Family pictures. I mean, just, they had the wall of fame where every child in their home went on that wall. And they had over 80 kids in that home. ⁓ Yeah, and they...

Matt Darrah (16:05)

off the rocker. We had everything that we could want. ⁓ Family pictures. mean, just they had the wall of fame where every child in their home went on that wall. They had over 80 kids in that home. ⁓ Yeah. And they

Heather Ford (16:25)

have photo albums for every child in that home. They saved, they did photo albums for every child, including

Matt Darrah (16:25)

have photo albums for every child in that home. They say they did photo albums for every child. ⁓

including my sister and I, we've got photo albums. We also had a life book where D.F. was a part of that and they had our photo albums and they did that. I mean, the foster parents themselves, they wanted to document. I mean, they dressed us in those 80 outfits with the 80 hairstyles. The bright pink and the bright blue.

Heather Ford (16:32)

my sister and I, we've got photo albums. We also had a life book where DCF was a part of that and they had our photo albums and they did that. But I mean, the foster parents themselves, they wanted to document. I mean, they dressed us in those 80 outfits with the 80 hairstyles, okay? The bright pink and the bright blue. I mean, there's pictures, okay?

the matching jumpers, right? Like the whole, the 90s. And we were in their family photos. It was, I mean, a wall, a wall of just every child, every child they got, new family photo went up. Our school pictures were up and they still have those. And then they made separate photo albums.

Matt Darrah (16:52)

the matching jumpers, right? Like the whole, the 90s. And we were in their family photos. It was, I mean, wall, a wall of just every child, every child they got, new family photo went up. Our school pictures were up. And they still have those. ⁓ And then they made So you still have

communication with them now?

Heather Ford (17:18)

Yes and no, but there's it's strained because of things that happened. So after I left their home, ⁓ actually I was ripped from their home by my biological aunt who brought me into a Pentecostal religious cult where I was sexually abused for seven years by one of the leaders and my aunt planned this. This was a part of her plan.

Matt Darrah (17:19)

Yes and no, it's strange because of things that happened. So after I left their home, ⁓ actually I was ripped from their home by my biological aunt ⁓ who brought me into a Pentecostal religious cult where I was sexually abused for seven years by one of the leaders. And my aunt planned this. This was a part of her plan.

Heather Ford (17:47)

Her whole thing was the Lord told me that the girls are going to be mine and they don't need counseling. They're going to get healed by God. And my foster parents at the time, the ones that I was with for three and a half years, warned her. This is a bad idea. You may love them and that's evident, but you don't have the tools or the resources to help them.

Matt Darrah (17:48)

Her whole thing was the Lord told me that the girls are going to be mine and they don't need counseling. They're going to get killed by God. And my foster parents at the time, the ones that I was with for three and a half years, want her. This is a bad idea. You may love them and that's evident, but you don't have the tools or the resources to help them.

Heather Ford (18:14)

⁓ I was born with fetal alcohol syndrome, which is a brain injury. And so my aunt was not equipped to handle that. So every meltdown that I had, she thought it was a spiritual issue that I was being rebellious, disobedient, that I had a demon inside of me. ⁓ So because of that, they not only were sexually abusing me, but casting demons out of me at the same time with using olive oil.

Matt Darrah (18:15)

I was born with fetal alcohol syndrome, which is a brain injury. And so my aunt was not equipped to handle that. So every meltdown that I had, she thought it was a spiritual issue that I was being rebellious, disobedient, that I had a demon inside of me. So because of that, they not only were sexually abusing me, but casting demons out of me at the same time with using olive

oil.

Heather Ford (18:42)

And that's the extent of where I'm going to. ⁓ If you want more info, read my book where I dive in a little more. But my aunt was warned. My aunt was warned. She was warned to not do this, that this is going to backfire. ⁓ And Nicole and I basically demanded, like, if we're going with you, you're not going to cut communication off with them because those to us are our parents and we want to see them.

Matt Darrah (18:42)

And that's the extent of where I'm going to. ⁓ If you want more info, read my book. Right. I've been a little more but my aunt was warned. My aunt was warned. She was warned to not do this that this is going to backfire. ⁓ And Nicole and I basically demanded like, if we're going with you, you're not going to cut communication off with them. Because those to us are our parents. And we want to see

them.

Heather Ford (19:10)

And so my aunt honored that like it was a battle, but we, she would bring us back to Maine to see our dad. And then to go see this family every summer. So every summer from 1993 all the way up to 2006, we would see them every summer, family photos. And it was a different side of me that came out cause I was safe. And I, I did.

Matt Darrah (19:10)

And so my aunt honored that like it was a battle, but we she would bring us back to Maine to see our dad. Yeah. And then to go see this family every summer. So every summer from 1993 all the way up to 2006, we would see them every summer. Family photos. And it was a different side of me that came out because I was safe. Right. And I I did.

Heather Ford (19:39)

I attempted multiple times to expose abuse to foster mom that my aunt was doing and my aunt stopped it. My aunt purpose was stopped it. So I was not allowed to say anything. ⁓ I wasn't even allowed to tell anything to my birth dad. Like my aunt didn't want him knowing, which my birth dad is my aunt, they're related, sister and brother. So she didn't want that being revealed. My dad knew that she was an adult.

Matt Darrah (19:39)

I attempted multiple times to expose abuse to foster mom that my aunt was doing and my aunt stopped it. My aunt purposely stopped it. So I was not allowed to say anything. ⁓ I wasn't even allowed to tell anything to my birth dad. Like my aunt didn't want him knowing. Which my birth dad is my aunt, they're related, sister and brother. So she didn't want that being revealed. My dad knew that she was in a

cult.

Heather Ford (20:08)

He didn't know any abuse that was going on. He had no clue. He just knew that we were being controlled by what we were kind of thing, but didn't know if there was any sexual abuse going on. And so any of that I did try to expose to my foster family, my aunt caught on and stopped it. But I mean, we saw them every summer, went to church with them, had dinner, had a lunch.

Matt Darrah (20:09)

He didn't know any abuse that was going on. He had no clue. He just knew that we were being controlled by what we were kind of thing, but didn't know if there was any sexual abuse going on. And so any of that I did try expose to my foster family. My aunt caught on and stopped it. But I mean, we saw them every summer, ⁓ went to church with them, had dinner, had a lunch.

Heather Ford (20:38)

swam in the pool, saw her family. It was like we were home again. So then in 2006, when I escaped this cult, I attempted to call my foster family to let them know what was going on. And they immediately said, well, what did you do?

Matt Darrah (20:38)

Swam in the pool, saw her family. It was like we were home again. So then in 2006, when I escaped this cult, I attempted to call my foster family to let them know what was going on. And they immediately said, well, what did you

do?

Heather Ford (21:02)

And I was like, didn't do anything. And they're like, well, you know, the Bible says to confess your sins to one to another. And I said, I didn't do anything wrong. Like I'm being accused of stuff. I was basically accused of committing fornication. And I'm like, that's not, not true. And little did I know that my aunt had beat me to that phone call and she spewed lies about me to blast her mom.

Matt Darrah (21:02)

And was like, didn't do anything. You're like, well, you know, the Bible says to confess your sins to one to another. And I said, I didn't do anything wrong. Like I'm being accused of stuff. I was basically accused of committing fornication. And I'm like, that's not not true. Yeah. And little did I know that my aunt had beat me to that phone call and she spewed lies about me to her foster

mom. Wow.

Heather Ford (21:30)

to

the point where the communication stops from 2006 until 2023. I tried, they declined my calls, everything, they didn't wanna speak to me, they pretty much shunned me, disowned me, but they took my sister back. So it's a little sad, heartbreaking that the same thing kinda happened to my sister, but they took my sister back and not me.

Matt Darrah (21:30)

to the point where the communication stops from 2006 until 2023. I tried. They declined my calls, everything. They didn't want to speak to me. They pretty much shunned me, disowned me. But they took my sister back. So it's a little sad, heartbreaking that the same thing kind of happened to my sister, but they took my sister back and not me.

Heather Ford (21:58)

And it was hurtful. They blocked me and it was hard to see that like my sister's in these family photos with them and I'm not there. I should be a part of that. So there was no communication for a good 17 years, unfortunately. And I was throwing red flags so I'm like, I'm here. like talk to me. And I finally had stopped because I was like, I can't force a horse to come to water.

Matt Darrah (21:59)

And it was hurtful. They blocked me and it was hard to see that like my sister's in these family photos with them and I'm not there. I should be a part of that. So there was no communication for a good 17 years, ⁓ unfortunately. And I was throwing red flags and I'm I'm here. Why? Like talk to me. And I finally had stopped because I was like, I can't force a horse to come to

water.

Heather Ford (22:28)

Like you're gonna believe a lie, you're gonna believe a lie. And I can't unfortunately change your mind about that. Your mind has been set up. And then fast forward to 2023, August 6th of 2023, I started my day like every other, know, coffee the whole nine yards. And then I decided to scroll social media and I saw a picture.

Matt Darrah (22:28)

Like you're gonna believe a lie. You're gonna believe a lie. And I can't unfortunately change your mind about that. Your mind has been set up. And then fast forward to 2023. August 6 of 2023, I started my day like every other, you know, coffee the whole nine yards. And then I decided to scroll social media and I saw a

picture.

Heather Ford (22:57)

of my sister and foster family on one of my foster sister's pages. And I was like, okay, cool, whatever. And then I was looking at the comments and people were saying things like, she was a beautiful person, she's gonna be missed. And I'm like, I'm like, what? So I'm thinking in my head, it's foster mom. Like her cancer came back, because she had breast cancer at one point. So I was like,

Matt Darrah (22:57)

of my sister and foster family on one of my foster sister's pages. And I was like, okay, cool, whatever. And then I was looking at the comments and people were saying things like, she was a beautiful person, she's gonna be missed. And I'm like, I'm like, what are you, what? So I'm thinking in my head, it's foster mom. Like her cancer came back. She had breast cancer at one point.

So like, maybe it came back, not knowing.

Heather Ford (23:25)

Maybe it came back, not knowing.

So I'm reaching out to said foster sister to be like, is everything okay? And she's like, no, we can't talk about it. I was like, is your mom okay? And she's like, yes. And then she blocked me. So long story for that one. I found out it was about my sister Nicole.

Matt Darrah (23:28)

So I'm reaching out to said foster sister to be like, is everything okay? And she's like, no, we can't talk about it. I was like, is your mom okay? And she's like, yes. And then she blocked me. So long story for that one. I found out it was about my sister

Nicole. And moral of that story is I found out through TikTok and Facebook that my sister had died via suicide.

Heather Ford (23:46)

And moral of that story is I found out through TikTok and Facebook that my sister had died via suicide.

Matt Darrah (23:58)

Gosh. And one of my foster brothers, when I was trying to find out information, he straight up told me, you're just going to have to wait for the obituary to come

Heather Ford (23:59)

And one of my foster brothers, ⁓ when I was trying to find out information, he straight up told me, you're just gonna have to wait for the obituary to come out.

Matt Darrah (24:09)

out.

Heather Ford (24:13)

Foster family also made it a point to contact everybody in the biological family and tell them. So everybody knew except for me.

Matt Darrah (24:13)

Foster family also made it a point to contact everybody in the biological family and tell them. So everybody knew except for

me. This did not go well with me. I demanded answers. I went on TikTok live actually. And I was like, I need confirmation. And there were things leading up. I had found out that Nicole had moved back to Maine and that she had taken a job.

Heather Ford (24:25)

this did not go well with me. I demanded answers. ⁓ I went on TikTok live actually, and I was like, I need confirmation. And there were things leading up. I had found out that Nicole had moved back to Maine and that she had taken a job for security

Matt Darrah (24:41)

for security at Target. And I knew that was not right. was like, that's not Nicole. Nicole served with the Boston Police Department for over 12 years

Heather Ford (24:42)

at Target. And I knew that was not right. I was like, that's not Nicole. ⁓ Nicole served with the Boston police department for over 12 years.

as a 911 dispatcher saving lives. And when she took that job at Target, I knew, I was like, something's off. And so I was like, Like, this makes no sense. And sure enough,

Matt Darrah (24:52)

as a 911 dispatcher, saving lives. And when she took that job at Target, knew, I was like, something's off. And so I was like, Like, this makes no sense. And sure enough,

Heather Ford (25:08)

someone at Target confirmed, yeah, we just got the call about Nicole. I'm here to cover her shift. And they're saying it was suicide. So.

Matt Darrah (25:08)

someone at Target confirmed, yeah, we just got the call about Nicole. I'm here to cover her shift. And they're saying it was suicide. So

she took her life August 2nd, the day before her 41st birthday. So she never made it to 41. My sister and I are about a year and three months apart, ⁓ kind of on that line of two years apart. So

Heather Ford (25:21)

She took her life August 2nd, the day before her 41st birthday. So she never made it to 41. My sister and I are about a year and three months apart, kind of on that line of two years apart. So

Matt Darrah (25:38)

She was going to be 41. And what she basically missed a day of work. And then she missed her birthday party, which she never misses birthdays.

Heather Ford (25:38)

she was going to be 41. ⁓ And what she basically missed a day of work. And then she missed her birthday party, which she never misses birthdays.

And then she missed another day of work and missing the birthday party. My foster parents were like something's off. Nicole doesn't just miss a birthday party. So they did a wellness check and anybody that's experienced like, no, it's not pleasant. And they drove up to Portland where they found her in her bedroom.

Matt Darrah (25:48)

And then she missed another day of work and missing the birthday party. My foster parents were like something's off. doesn't just miss a birthday party. So they did a wellness check. ⁓ And anybody that's experienced that, no, it's not pleasant. And they drove up to Portland where they found her in her bedroom.

Heather Ford (26:08)

And there was a note and there was a video in her phone and the note wasn't really addressed to anybody. It was just kind of addressed to

Matt Darrah (26:08)

And there was a note and there was a video in her phone. And the note wasn't really addressed to anybody. It was just kind of addressed to

her supervisors in law enforcement, basically telling them, I'm sorry that I wasn't enough, that my talent wasn't enough, that my expertise wasn't enough to help. ⁓ And she was at the end of it. She was done. She just, her PTSD was too much.

Heather Ford (26:18)

her supervisors in law enforcement, basically telling them, I'm sorry that I wasn't enough, that my talent wasn't enough, ⁓ that my expertise wasn't enough to help. And she was at the end of it. She was done. just, her PTSD was too much.

I also found out that she was stalking my Instagram because in 2020 I came forward with the abuse. ⁓

Matt Darrah (26:38)

I also found out that she was stalking my Instagram because in 2020 I came forward with the abuse inside

Heather Ford (26:46)

inside this organization and my sister was seeing all that so it's triggering her and so when trauma triggers people it can it can either drive them to heal or it's going to drive them further into their PTSD and just totally disassociate and I think that's what happened

Matt Darrah (26:47)

this organization and my sister was seeing all that. So it's triggering her. so when trauma triggers people, can either drive them to heal or it's going to drive them further into their PTSD and just totally disassociate. And I think that's what

Heather Ford (27:05)

and so she she ended it.

Matt Darrah (27:06)

And so she ended

it. Man, wow. That is heavy, girl. That is heavy. And since then, Foster family only reached out to me the first year she was gone, and they haven't reached out since. So they've not even checked in on me.

Heather Ford (27:16)

And since then, foster family only reached out to me the first year she was gone and they haven't reached out since. So they've not even checked in on me.

Matt Darrah (27:33)

So, wow. Just wow. So, where did the decision to say I'm gonna write a book about this, where did that come from? Just a need to tell the story?

Heather Ford (27:41)

Yep.

Thank

Yeah, so I mean, I had started writing years prior, and I just didn't. Life was happening, OK? Let's be very, very real. Life was happening for me, and I just maybe I just wasn't ready. I started and I was getting triggered and I wasn't ready. And then in 20 and sorry, 2017, when I lost my birth dad, I started having flashbacks. I started having memories of the individual who

Matt Darrah (27:59)

Yeah, so I mean, I had started writing years prior, I just didn't. Life was happening. Yeah, it's very, very real. Life was happening for me. And I just maybe I just wasn't ready. I started and I was getting triggered and I wasn't ready. And then in 20 and sorry, 2017, when I lost my birth dad, I started having flashbacks. I started having memories of the individual who

Heather Ford (28:28)

sexually

Matt Darrah (28:29)

sexually abused me and I was like this is off something's not right and I confronted I confronted my aunt and I was and she didn't deny it basically she was like yeah I knew and I knew that he was abusing his own daughters and her excuse was well I was a single parent and you were at a control child and I thought I was dealing with a demon issue

Heather Ford (28:29)

abused me and I was like, this is off, something's not right. And I confronted my aunt and she didn't deny it. Basically, she was just like, yeah, I knew. And I knew that he was abusing his own daughters. And her excuse was, well, I was a single parent and you were out of control child and I thought I was dealing with a demon issue.

Um, and so I have confronted all three parties. Um, and then I went public with it. I talked to my therapist first, obviously I got some. I was like, okay, I need to process this. And I went public. I was like, no way. Are you guys going to silence me anymore? And I went, I blasted all of them, all three pictures, everything. Um, and I knew Nicole at the time was watching.

Matt Darrah (28:55)

And so I confronted all three parties. And then I went public with it. I talked to my therapist first, obviously. I got some... I was like, okay, I need to process this. And I went public. I was like, no way are you guys going to silence me anymore? And I blasted all of them, three, pictures, everything. And I knew Nicole at the time was watching.

Heather Ford (29:24)

I believe she had a private account on TikTok, especially on Instagram. I knew she was watching. And so I had to be careful because I didn't want to share her part in it or her side of it because yes, we were in the same homes. We were together. We were in this cult together. And our ending was the same but different. We had different experiences. Same ending, but different.

Matt Darrah (29:24)

I believe she had a private account on TikTok, especially on Instagram. I knew she was watching. And so I had to be careful because I didn't want to share her part in it or her side of it. yes, we were in the same homes. We were together. We were in this cult together. And our ending was the same but different. We had different experiences. Same ending but different.

Heather Ford (29:53)

My sister was kicked out. I was kicked out. My sister was kicked out by having all of her stuff thrown out on the front lawn. I was kicked out. Well, I attempted to leave and I attempted to leave with a butcher knife to my throat. That's how I got out. And then they excommunicated me. And the current leader dropped me off at a homeless shelter 10 o'clock at night. And then two days later, he and my aunt showed up.

Matt Darrah (29:53)

My sister was kicked out. I was kicked out. My sister was kicked out by having all of her stuff thrown out on the front lawn. was kicked out. Well, I attempted to leave and I attempted to leave with a butcher knife to my throat. That's how I got out. And then they excommunicated me. ⁓ And the current leader dropped me off at a homeless shelter 10 o'clock at night. And then two days later, he and my aunt showed

up.

Heather Ford (30:23)

and dumped all my stuff off in the parking lot. that, again, same experiences, different outcomes. And I was very careful. And I told her, said, I just want to let you know, I am sharing what happened to me and I am putting it in the public, ⁓ but in no way, or form, will I mention your name, your story? I'm not sharing your side because it's not mine to share.

Matt Darrah (30:23)

and dumped all my stuff off in the parking lot. that, again, same experiences, different outcomes. And I was very careful. And I told her, said, I just want to let you know, I am sharing what happened to me. And I am putting it in the public. But in no way, or form, will I mention your name? I'm not sharing your side.

because it's not mine to

share. And she was like, thank you for honoring that. Thank you for not sharing my part in it. And she was grateful for that. Fast forward to 2023, I was like, okay, now that she's gone, I mean, this was the utmost respect. Sorry, Nicole, but like, I don't have a choice anymore. Like, now it's all gonna come out. And so Nicole is being painted.

Heather Ford (30:54)

And she was like, thank you for honoring that. Thank you for not sharing my part in it. And she was grateful for that. Fast forward to 2023, I was like, okay, now that she's gone, I mean, this was the utmost respect. Sorry, Nicole, but like, you don't get a choice anymore. Like, and now it's all gonna come out. And so Nicole is being painted.

as a hero and she is so in no way shape or form am I taking that. She absolutely was a hero not just to the Boston Police Department and to the Boston community. She was my hero first and I'm not taking that in no way. She was a light to a lot of people. She saved a sergeant's life. She was

Matt Darrah (31:21)

as a hero, and she is. So in no way, form am I taking that. She absolutely was a hero, not just to the Boston Police Department and to the Boston community. She was my hero first. And I'm not taking that in no way. She was a light to a lot of people. She saved a sergeant's life. ⁓ She was.

Heather Ford (31:48)

an amazing sister to me, although I took that for granted. ⁓ She was an amazing person. And that being said, a lot of people don't know what happened between her and I and what happened with us. They don't see that side because our foster parents don't want that being disclosed. They don't want anything with biological family being exposed. They don't, they don't want it. And I'm not trying to throw

Matt Darrah (31:48)

an amazing sister to me, although I took that for granted. She was an amazing person. And that being said, a lot of people don't know what happened between her and I and what happened with us. They don't see that side because our foster parents don't want that being disclosed. They don't want anything with biological family being exposed. They don't. They don't want it. And I'm not.

trying to

throw my foster parents under the bus because they were amazing parents overall. And do I agree with how they handled my sister's death and not telling me? Absolutely. Do I understand why they didn't tell me? Absolutely. Do I agree with it? Absolutely not, no. But I understand because of certain things that took place at the service, I understand why they maybe didn't tell me. And...

Heather Ford (32:18)

my foster parents under the bus because they were amazing parents ⁓ overall. And I, do I agree with how they handled my sister's death and not telling me? Absolutely. Do I understand why they didn't tell me? Absolutely. Do I agree with it? Absolutely not. No, but I understand because of certain things that took place at the service, I understand why they maybe didn't tell me. And

let's just say Auntie Daris showed up.

Matt Darrah (32:46)

Let's just say Auntie Darius showed

up at the church and they had private security. had security and cops, which by the way, not very bright for my aunt to show up at a cop service with a parking lot full of cops. Not bright, not bright. OK, but she tried and she was escorted off the property with like 10 security guys. we knew that was going to happen. And so

Heather Ford (32:49)

at the church and they had private security. They had security and cops, which by the way, not very bright for my aunt to show up at a cop service with a parking lot full of cops. Not bright, not bright. Okay, but she tried and she was escorted off the property with like 10 security guys. And we knew that was gonna happen. And so they

handled that beautifully. Does it still hurt that?

Matt Darrah (33:15)

they handled that beautifully. Does it still hurt

that I didn't get to stand up and say anything about my sister? Absolutely. Does it hurt that I wasn't included? Absolutely. Do I understand maybe why they didn't tell me? Yes, but I don't agree with it. ⁓ And so, again, not throwing shade to anybody listening. I'm not showing it to shade to my foster family or to my sister. ⁓

Heather Ford (33:18)

I didn't get to stand up and say anything about my sister. Absolutely. Does it hurt that I wasn't included? Absolutely. Do I understand maybe why they didn't tell me? Yes. But I don't agree with it. ⁓ And so, yeah, again, not throwing shade to anybody listening. I'm not showing the shade to my foster family or to my sister. I

have a lot of love for them and a lot of respect.

Matt Darrah (33:45)

I have a lot of love for them and a lot of respect.

Heather Ford (33:48)

But my side deserves to be heard too. And there's a side of that doesn't, that hasn't been heard. And it's not to throw shade at her. It's really to enlighten people that there was another side of her. There is another side of us ⁓ that our relationship was shitty, to be honest. And I

Matt Darrah (33:48)

But my side deserves to be heard too. And there's a side of Nicole that doesn't that hasn't been heard. ⁓ And it's not to throw shade at her. It's really to enlighten people that there was another side of her. There is another side of us ⁓ that our relationship was shitty to be honest.

Heather Ford (34:13)

do blame the cult for that. They tore us apart. I blame myself for that.

Matt Darrah (34:13)

I do blame the cult for that. tore us apart. I blame myself for

that, if I'm being honest. And ⁓ I have to live with that. I live with it every day. Sure. My responsibility in our relationship doesn't make it okay. I miss her, obviously. absolutely.

Heather Ford (34:17)

if I'm being honest, and ⁓ I have to live with that. I live with it every day. ⁓ My responsibility in our relationship ⁓ doesn't make it okay. I miss her, obviously. ⁓

And I played a part. I did. And how I spoke to her, how I treated her, and I record every minute of it. It doesn't mean that I didn't love her. It doesn't mean that she didn't love her, so that she didn't love me. But here's the thing, when you have two sisters who have been through and the trauma that we went through, it's like wearing a backpack with a bomb. We're ticking time bombs. And that's what we were.

Matt Darrah (34:36)

And I played a part. I did. And how I spoke to her, how I treated her, and I record every minute of it. It doesn't mean that I didn't love her. It doesn't mean that she didn't love her, that she didn't love me. But here's the thing, when you have two sisters who have and the trauma that we went through, it's like wearing a backpack with a bomb. Or two time bombs. And that's what we were.

Heather Ford (35:04)

We literally would go probably two years before speaking again. It was like a on and off, on and off. And it doesn't mean that I didn't love her because I absolutely did. And she loved me. There's no doubt about that. And when you read my book, you will see that. ⁓ But the trauma took over. you know, I remember a time during the Boston Marathon bombing.

Matt Darrah (35:04)

We literally would go probably two years before speaking again. It was like get on and off, on and off. And it doesn't mean that I didn't love her because I absolutely did. And she loved me. There's no doubt about that. And when you read my book, you will see that. ⁓ the trauma took over. I remember a time during the Boston Marathon bombing.

Heather Ford (35:30)

Then I talked to my sister where I started seeing some trauma in her and some PTSD and I never addressed it because I felt like a hypocrite myself. Like here I am just kind of starting therapy journey and healing my own stuff. And so what good am I of a sister to say, Oh, you need to go to therapy when I'm not doing it myself or I'm not healing myself. And so I kept it quiet. didn't say, I didn't say anything.

Matt Darrah (35:31)

Then I talked to my sister where I started seeing some trauma in her and some PTSD and I never addressed it because I felt like a hypocrite myself. Like here I am just kind of starting therapy journey and healing my own stuff. And so what good am I of a sister to say, you need to go to therapy when I'm not doing it myself or I'm not healing myself. And so I kept it quiet. didn't say, I didn't say anything.

Heather Ford (36:01)

⁓ and I think she, she saw a therapist at one point, but, then she went through a bad divorce and she was seeing therapists through that. There were just a lot of things that there were some things that she did that were very hurtful to me. and I have to live with that. I live with those things and I got back at her like typical sister stuff. I mean, doesn't make it okay. I wish we could have repaired our relationship, but.

Matt Darrah (36:01)

And I think she saw a therapist at one point, but and then she went through a bad divorce and she was seeing therapists through that. There were just a lot of things that there were some things that she did that were very hurtful to me. And I have to live with that. I live with those things and I got back at her like typical sister stuff. I mean, doesn't make it OK. ⁓ I wish we could have repaired our relationship, but.

Heather Ford (36:30)

That's not how it ended. ⁓ Yeah. I blame the church 100 % for what they did to us.

Matt Darrah (36:30)

That's not how it ended. Yeah. I blame the church 100 % for what they did to

us.

So awful. I'm so sorry that she went through all that. That's just tough. So hard. So what does your journey look like as far as healing? I mean, there's...

so much to unpack there. I know for me, ⁓ I'm 45 and I didn't start seeing a therapist until about two and a half years ago. ⁓

Heather Ford (37:14)

Okay.

Matt Darrah (37:24)

You know, we do some marriage counseling with this pastor or this or that or whatever, but not doing intensive therapy until, like I say, until about three years ago. And so I'm just curious what that journey's looked like for you. Yeah, it's been a roller coaster. You know, there are stages of healing.

Heather Ford (37:46)

Yeah, it's been a roller coaster. You know, there are stages of healing.

Matt Darrah (37:54)

⁓ Both when my sister and I got out, we kind of went our separate ways a little bit and my sister went and got tattoos. I went and got piercings. Okay, that's just the outer appearance, right? ⁓ I went and got a palette of blue eyeshadows. I

Heather Ford (37:56)

Both when my sister and I got out, we kind of went our separate ways a little bit. And my sister went and got tattoos. I went and got piercings. Okay, that's just how that's just the outer appearance, right? I went and got a palette of blue eyeshadows like

you, I'm gonna wear eyeshadow because I can. ⁓ So we we did the physical things, right? And then

Matt Darrah (38:15)

ew, I'm gonna wear eyeshadow, so I can. ⁓ So we did the physical things, right? And then...

Heather Ford (38:21)

I decided to start getting into therapy because I was having nightmares and nightmares of still having communication with my birth mom, like I finally met her when I was 21. And She's still drunk. Okay. And ⁓ I was just having nightmares and flashbacks. So

Matt Darrah (38:22)

I decided to start getting into therapy because I was having nightmares and nightmares of still having communication with my birth mom. Like I finally met her when I was 21 She's still drunk. Okay. And I was just having nightmares and flashbacks. And

so I ended up going into a psych hospital in the state of Maine and was there for about a week. Met an amazing therapist.

Heather Ford (38:40)

I ended up going into a psych hospital in the state of Maine and was there for about a week. Met an amazing therapist.

Once I got out, I found her. ⁓ She had an office outside the hospital and I was with her for nine years. I was her client for nine years. So much so that the hospital misdiagnosed me. ⁓ And I don't usually typically share my diagnosis, but they diagnosed me as bipolar.

Matt Darrah (38:51)

Once I got out, I found her. She had an office outside the hospital and I was with her for nine years. I was her client for nine years. So much so that the hospital misdiagnosed me. ⁓ And I don't usually typically share my diagnosis, but they diagnosed me as bipolar.

And that was a wrong diagnosis ⁓ to the point where they medicated me with those medicines. ⁓ And the therapist was like,

Heather Ford (39:11)

And that was a wrong diagnosis ⁓ to the point where they medicated me with those medicines. ⁓ And the therapist was like,

that's no, that's not true. You don't have that. Like this is what you really have. And I detoxed in her office every weekend. Her name was Kelly and beautiful soul. Did a lot of art therapy with me. So that's how it started, art therapy, yoga.

Matt Darrah (39:20)

That's no, that's not true. You don't have that. Like this is what you really have. And I detox in her office every weekend. Her name was Kelly and beautiful soul. Did a lot of art therapy with me. So that's how it started, art therapy, yoga.

⁓ And I would detox in her office. She's like, I need to see you twice a week and I wanna see you on a weekend. And so.

Heather Ford (39:39)

And she, would detox in her office. She's like, I need to see you twice a week and I want to see you on a weekend. And so

every Saturday it was detoxing in her office, getting me off those meds and getting me on something correct with the correct diagnosis. ⁓ And then that happened and I ended up on the right meds. She ended up being my therapist.

Matt Darrah (39:48)

Every Saturday, it was detoxing in her office, getting me off those meds and getting me on something correct with the correct diagnosis. then that happened and I ended up on the right meds. She ended up being my therapist

for nine years and then she died of stage four breast cancer in 2010. They misdiagnosed her as

Heather Ford (40:05)

for nine years and then she died of stage four breast cancer in 2010. They misdiagnosed her as

lung cancer and it was really breast cancer. So then I kind of jumped to a different therapist trying to find somebody in between and somebody was like, have you tried EMDR? And I was like, no, I've heard of it, but what is it really? I don't know, don't ask me the name. Eye movement coordination is something.

Matt Darrah (40:16)

lung cancer and breast cancer. So then I kind of jumped to a different therapist trying to find somebody in between and somebody was like, have you tried EMDR? And I was like, no, I've heard of it. But what is it really? Yeah. Don't ask me the name. Eye movement coordination,

something. Desensitization, whatever. And I tried it the first time and I wasn't ready. My body rejected it.

Heather Ford (40:34)

desensitization, whatever. And I tried it the first time and I wasn't ready. My body rejected it. Like

it was not there. So, and that's okay. Like if you're not ready, you're not ready. ⁓ and then a couple of years later I was ready and it really helps. ⁓ as far as working through some of those memories, ⁓ really, and it's really important to have a good therapist. a therapist that you feel safe with that you care, that cares.

Matt Darrah (40:42)

It was not there. And that's okay. You're not ready, you're not ready. And then a couple years later, I was ready. And it really helped as far as working through some of those memories. Really, and it's really important to have a good therapist. therapist that you feel safe with, that you care, that cares.

Because if you don't have that, then it's a moot point and you shouldn't be doing it.

Heather Ford (41:04)

Because if you don't have that then it's a moot point and you shouldn't be doing it

and then making sure that you're ready because if you're not ready to address those issues It's gonna come back and bite you whether that's a that's a memory in your body or whether it's that sickness Whatever it may be. It's gonna come back. And so yeah, I've been in and of there. I've been in and out of therapy my whole life and then I tried Trauma hypnosis therapy and I know that scares everybody

Matt Darrah (41:08)

And then making sure that you're ready. Because if you're not ready to address those issues, it's going to come back and bite you. Whether that's memory in your body or whether it's that sickness, whatever it may be, it's going to come back. And so, yeah, I've been in and out therapy my whole life. ⁓ And then I tried trauma hypnosis therapy.

And I know that scares

everybody. it's like hypnosis. It's a real, can be scary if you don't know what you're getting yourself into. You're not educated on it. ⁓ But if you are, and you're with the right person, it's a beautiful experience. A lot of inner child meditations, ⁓ a lot of checking your chakras. If you're into that, they check your chakras and they basically get you to do a meditation.

Heather Ford (41:33)

hypnosis. It's a real it can be scary if you don't know what you're getting yourself into if you're not educated on it. But if you are in you're with the right person. It's a beautiful experience. A lot of inner child meditations. ⁓ A lot of checking your chakras if you're into that. ⁓ They check they check your chakras and they basically get you to do a meditation to

focus on a memory.

Matt Darrah (42:01)

to focus on a memory.

And then they work through that and what your inner child, like what you would have said as a child. And then they're like, okay, now that you're an adult, what would the adult Heather say? How would the adult Heather handle this? Or what would she say that would be a better response? ⁓ And actually it was through trauma hypnosis therapy ⁓ two years ago that led me to find out about my sister.

Heather Ford (42:03)

And then they work through that and what your inner child, like what you would have said as a child. And then they're like, okay, now that you're an adult, what would the adult Heather say? How would the adult Heather handle this? Or what would she say that would be a better response? ⁓ And actually it was through trauma hypnosis therapy ⁓ two years ago that led me to find out about my sister. ⁓

Matt Darrah (42:31)

Yeah, because my

therapist was like, well, have you tried writing a letter to her and not sending it to her just writing a letter telling her how you feel? And I was getting ready to do that when I found out about my sister. And then I'll help her. I did take a break. I would recommend taking a break. If you're in therapy for a hot minute and you need take a break, it's okay to take a break. Sure. It that you're not feeling it doesn't mean that you're not that you've stopped your healing. It just means you're taking a breather.

Heather Ford (42:33)

The therapist was like, well, have you tried writing a letter term and not sending it to her, just writing a letter telling her how you feel? And I was getting ready to do that when I found out about my sister. And then I'll help her. I did take a break. I would recommend taking a break. If you're in therapy for a hot minute and you need take a break, it's okay to take a break. It doesn't mean that you're not feeling. It doesn't mean that you're not that you've stopped your healing. It just means you're taking a breather.

Take a break.

Matt Darrah (43:01)

take

a break. ⁓ And I took a break. I also was seeing a grief life coach for since 2017. Yes, there are life coaches ⁓ that are trained in grief and trauma. amazing, just got me introduced me to my intuition. Doing artwork, intuitive art making, listening to your intuition. ⁓ And it's a beautiful process.

Heather Ford (43:01)

and I took a break. I also was seeing a grief life coach since 2017. Yes, there are life coaches that are trained in grief and trauma and amazing. got me, introduced me to my intuition, doing artwork, intuitive art making, listening to your intuition. And it's a beautiful process.

⁓ She's expensive. I will say she's expensive. Insurance does not cover life coaches, just an FYI. So if anybody's listening to this, I absolutely recommend a grief life coach, but no, your health insurance does not cover it. You would be paying out of pocket. And it's not cheap. It's more than a hundred bucks. So just putting that out there. ⁓ It is worth it if you're working two jobs and you can afford it. It's doable.

Matt Darrah (43:30)

⁓ She's expensive. I will say she's expensive. Insurance does not cover life coaches. Just an FYI. So if anybody's listening to this, I absolutely recommend a grief life coach. But no, your health insurance does not cover it. You'll be paying out of pocket. And it's not cheap. It's more than $100. So just putting that out there. It is worth it if you're working two jobs and you can afford it. It's doable.

Sure. But anyway, so I did. I've done that. I went through the grief process about my birth dad with her and with my sister. And I would go back to her at any point if I needed to. But she's been a really great source. ⁓ Another source for me is community. That's something that my life coach was trying to work on with me, whether that's an in-person community or online community. Sure. Both can be good.

Heather Ford (44:00)

But anyway, so I did, I've done that. I went through the grief process about my birth dad with her and with my sister. And I would go back to her at any point if I needed to, but she's been a really great source. ⁓ Another source for me is community. That's something that my life coach was trying to work on with me, whether that's an in-person community or online community. ⁓ Both can be good.

both can be dangerous, can be bad depending on who you're around. So I have found for me that an online community works a little better. I have found a small net of online community and I just started putting myself out there, putting my story out there. I'm in an online social audio app where you can cam up, talk to people.

Matt Darrah (44:29)

both can be dangerous, can be bad, depending on who you're around. So I have found for me that an online community works a little better. I have found a small net of online community. And I just started putting myself out there, putting my story out there. I'm in an online social audio app where you can cam up, talk.

people,

Heather Ford (44:57)

⁓ see people's faces kind of talk, have real conversations with people. And, I, there's one person I met that, ⁓ who has become my sister. ⁓ I manifested her, so to speak, spoke her into existence. she, I totally believe that Nicole brought her to me because what nobody really knows is that

Matt Darrah (44:57)

see people's faces, kind of talk, have real conversations with people. And I, there's one person I met that, who has become my sister. I manifested her, so to speak, spoke her into existence. She, I totally believe that Nicole brought her to me, because what nobody really knows is that,

Heather Ford (45:23)

on May 20th of 2023, which is my birthday,

Matt Darrah (45:24)

on May 28th of 2023, which is my birthday,

Heather Ford (45:27)

I attempted to take my life. And then three months later, and this when I learned about Nicole's. And so that whole thing, and so I'm gonna be really honest with people. I've not been okay in the last two years. And we're coming up on number three in August. And so I'm not okay. I don't like telling people I'm okay, because I'm not okay. I have made several attempts since.

Matt Darrah (45:27)

I attempted to take my life. And then three months later, and this is when I learned about Nicole's. And so that whole thing, and so I'm gonna be really honest with people. I've not been okay in the last two years. And we're coming up on number three in August. And so I'm not okay. I don't like telling people I'm okay, because I'm not okay. I have made several attempts since.

Heather Ford (45:54)

And I truly believe that Nicole sent this person to me ⁓ to do an intervention to help me. And it's been beautiful because I've always wanted a relationship with my sister. I've always wanted a healthy relationship. And I watched how Nicole had her healthy relationships with said foster siblings. And I wanted that. I wanted that. like, how?

Matt Darrah (45:54)

And I truly believe that Nicole sent this person to me to do an intervention to help me. And it's been beautiful because I've always wanted a relationship with my sister. I've always wanted a healthy relationship. And I watched how Nicole had her healthy relationships with said foster siblings. Yeah. And I wanted that.

I them.

Like, why can't I have that? So, I manifested it. I spoke it as if it's already happened and it's already happening. And I wrote down the qualities. I wrote down her, what she looked like. And she looks nothing like me, by the way. And she's a realtor, okay? So, she looks nothing like me. She doesn't do the job or the work that I do, but she's a spiritual person. Yes, she does believe in God.

Heather Ford (46:23)

Why can't I have that? So I manifested it. I spoke it as if it's already happened and it's already happening. And I wrote down the qualities. I wrote down her, what she looked like. And she looks nothing like me by the way. And she's a realtor, okay? So like she looks nothing like me. She doesn't do the job or the work that I do. But she's a spiritual person. Yes, she does believe in God.

But she's spiritual.

Matt Darrah (46:50)

But she's spiritual

Heather Ford (46:51)

And definitely Nicole sent her and there's that special connection between us and we talk every day. We text every day. She checks on me every night. ⁓ And so I'm like, wow, this is what it feels like to have a healthy relationship. How to have a healthy relationship with a sister. And we're very honest. We've set tones and boundaries about, you know, hey, I've come to her and been like, hey, if there's something that I said or did.

Matt Darrah (46:51)

and definitely the full center. And there's that special connection between us. And we talk every day. We text every day. She checks on me every night. ⁓ And so I'm like, wow, this is what it feels like to have a healthy relationship. Right. Have a healthy relationship with a sister. And we're very honest. We've set we've set tones and boundaries about, you know, hey, I've come to her and been like, hey, if there's something that I said or did.

Heather Ford (47:18)

or that needs corrected, like come talk to me privately. Like I can have those conversations and vice versa. ⁓ And so yeah, just having a healthy relationship with a sister has been the most healing. Cause I didn't have that. didn't know what healthy was, what's healthy. And now that I know, cause I've seen it, I'm like, yeah, this looks great. Yeah, it looks amazing. Healing.

Matt Darrah (47:18)

or that needs corrected, like come talk to me privately. Like I can have those conversations and vice versa. ⁓ And so yeah, just having a healthy relationship with a sister has been the most healing. Cause I didn't have that. I didn't know what healthy was, what's healthy. ⁓ And now that I know, cause I've seen it, I'm like, yeah, this looks great. Yeah, it looks amazing. Healing.

Heather Ford (47:45)

looks amazing on me. When I wasn't healing, I was a hummus. ⁓ It was, nobody wanted to be around me. So it's, you gotta heal You got to. And in my book, it's already triggering people. I'm just gonna say it's already triggering people ⁓ to the point where I'm getting bullied and harassed. But it's gonna cause you to deal And it's a good thing.

Matt Darrah (47:45)

looks amazing on me. ⁓ When I wasn't healing, I was a hot mess. Nobody wanted to be around me. you gotta You got to. And in my book, it's already triggering people. I'm just gonna say it's already triggering people to the point where I'm getting bullied and harassed, okay? But it's gonna cause you to And it's a good thing.

Heather Ford (48:10)

Because that means there's healing there available for you. It's just your choice. You have a choice to say, hey, I want to heal this or I'm going to stay stuck and be a miserable person. And I could easily with all the stuff that I've been through, could easily say like, yeah, I'm a miserable person, blah, blah. But who like, I walk two hours to work sometimes.

Matt Darrah (48:10)

Because that means there's healing there available for you. This is your choice. You have a choice to say, hey, I want to heal this or I'm going to stay stuck and be a miserable person. And I could easily with all the stuff that I've been through, could easily say like, yeah, I'm a miserable person, blah, blah. Like, I walk two hours to work sometimes.

I don't make excuses. I don't drive. I don't rain injury. I have two jobs. I hold down two jobs I'm living on my own. I could easily make up excuses and But I'm doing it. Yeah, and there is no excuse I choose to heal yeah, I take a break when I need to but healing doesn't just Stay inside the walls of therapy. You have to go out for sure

Heather Ford (48:35)

I don't make excuses. I don't drive. I have a brain injury. I have two jobs. I hold down two jobs. I'm living on my own. I could easily make up excuses. And, but I'm doing it. And there is no excuse. I choose to heal. Yeah. I take a break when I need to, but healing doesn't just stay inside the walls of therapy. It has to go outward too. So

there's a lot of...

outward things. A lot of times that I spend by myself journaling, doing self-reflection with Oracle cards and tarot cards, and that's my way of connecting with a higher power. And so reflecting on that card every day and saying, okay, what is this message really saying for me today? Journaling, doing gratitude, 10 things I'm grateful for. Like it starts here.

Matt Darrah (49:03)

A lot of times that I spend by myself journaling, doing self-reflection with Oracle cards and tarot cards. And that's my way of connecting with a higher power. so reflecting on that card every day and saying, okay, what is this message really saying for me today? Journaling, doing gratitude, 10 things I'm grateful for. Like it starts here.

Heather Ford (49:29)

It starts within yourself and healing yourself and saying and

Matt Darrah (49:30)

It starts within yourself and healing yourself and saying,

and checking yourself. I think it's great that you can heal trauma. And yes, the trauma should be looked at and healed. But the most critical part is looking within yourself. Because there became a time, even after I escaped this cult, where I was And I was

Heather Ford (49:33)

checking yourself I think it's great that you can heal trauma And yes, the trauma should be looked at and healed But the most critical part is looking within yourself Because there became a time even after I escaped this cult where I was cult hopping and I was

being the typical Christian, the judgmental, the nasty person and shunning people.

Matt Darrah (49:53)

being the typical Christian, the judgmental, the nasty person and shunning people.

Heather Ford (50:01)

And I realized like, oh my God, that's what happened to me. So I'm doing what happened to me to somebody else. And I didn't like that side of me. I didn't like that. I didn't like any of it. And so what did Heather need to do to change that? I can go to therapy all day long. I can pay $160 a week to go to therapy and say,

Matt Darrah (50:01)

And I realized like, oh my god, that's what happened to me. So I'm doing what happened to me to somebody else. And I didn't like that side of me. Sure. I didn't like that. I didn't like any of it. And so what did Heather need to do to change that? I can go to therapy all day long. I can pay $160 a week to go to therapy and say,

Heather Ford (50:22)

and blame and put the blame. But, that was, and that may be true because I was in it

Matt Darrah (50:22)

and blame and put the blame. But and that was and that may be true because I was in it.

Heather Ford (50:29)

and I didn't escape yet. But after I escaped, it's on me. I can change. I can change how I treat people. I change how I treat myself. ⁓ And I looked within and I said, yeah, I don't like this part of me. I don't like that I'm shunning homosexuals. I don't like that I'm.

Matt Darrah (50:30)

and I didn't escape yet. After I escaped, it's on me. I can change. I can change how I treat people. I change how I treat myself. and I looked within and I said, Yeah, I don't like this part of me. I don't like that I'm shunning homosexuals. I don't like that.

Heather Ford (50:50)

I'm shunning the gays and the GLBT community. Like that's not who I want to be. I want to change that. And that's just an example, but

Matt Darrah (50:50)

I'm shunning the gays and the GLBT community. Like that's not who I want to be. I want to change that. And that's just an example. But

Heather Ford (51:00)

because it's a popular one. But like, I just didn't like who I was. And I was like, I don't like this person. And so I changed it. I changed. I changed myself. I changed. I, and it's still, I'm still working hard. So I still slip up to still make mistakes. Yes. But I'm aware. I'm aware. I'm very aware.

Matt Darrah (51:00)

Because it's a popular one, but like I just didn't like who I was and I was like I don't like this person and so I changed it. Yeah changed I Changed myself I changed and I and it's still I'm still working hard. I still slip up this don't make mistakes Yes, I'm aware. I'm aware. I'm very aware

of What I'm around who I'm around. I am very careful about who I put myself around Because when you touch somebody there's a transfer of energy, so I I pick up energy

Heather Ford (51:18)

of what I'm around, who I'm around, I am very careful about who I put myself around. ⁓ Because when you touch somebody, there's a transfer of energy. So I pick up energy

like no business. Like I can be in a room full of people and I'm like, something's off. ⁓ I'm just intuitive like that. But it's just healing myself. So yes, healing the trauma is a big part of it. But the biggest part...

Matt Darrah (51:30)

like no business, like I can be in a room full of people and I'm like, something's off. ⁓ I'm just intuitive like that. But it's just healing myself. So yes, healing the trauma is a big part of it. But the biggest part

Heather Ford (51:47)

is looking within and healing yourself and saying, my God, like this is who I was. This is who I still am because

Matt Darrah (51:47)

is looking within and healing yourself and saying, ⁓ my God, like this is who I was. This is who I still am because.

Heather Ford (51:58)

I refuse to look outside and say, I did this and I was wrong. I spoke to this person in this manner because of this incident, because of this happened and I didn't feel that and I need to change. So changing myself and I still, I'm still

Matt Darrah (51:58)

I refuse to look outside and say, I did this and I was wrong. I spoke to this person in this manner because of this incident, because of this happened and I didn't feel that and I need to change. So changing myself and I still, I'm still

Heather Ford (52:17)

working on how I word things, how I treat people, how I talk to people, and ⁓ just not being that old person anymore.

Matt Darrah (52:17)

working on how I word things, how I treat people, ⁓ how I talk to people and just not being that old person anymore.

And so yeah healing isn't supposed to be pretty healing is not pretty it's ugly But the outcome is beautiful Because it can show yeah for sure I used to lash out on people I don't lash out anymore like I take a minute

Heather Ford (52:28)

so, yeah, healing isn't supposed to be pretty. Healing is not pretty. It's ugly, but the outcome is beautiful because it shows. It shows. Like I used to lash out on people. I don't lash out anymore. Like I take a minute.

and I'm like, okay, is this a trigger? It's okay to ask yourself, okay, is this a trigger? Should I be lashing out right now? Like, what's happening? And

Matt Darrah (52:46)

and I'm like, okay, is this a trigger? It's okay to ask yourself. Okay. Is this a trigger? I should I be lashing out right now? like What's happening?

And I had to put myself in the trap. Like, is this a trigger or is this passion coming out? Because when you're passionate about something, yeah, some anger can come out in between. Triggers can happen in between. And so that happens with me a lot where I'm passionate about talking about

Heather Ford (52:57)

I've had to put myself in the chat. Like, is this a trigger or is this passion coming out? Because when you're passionate about something, yeah, some anger can come out in between and triggers can happen in between. And so that happens with me a lot where I'm passionate about talking about.

abuse inside the walls of the churches and I get angry about it and that gets misconstrued as like, she's triggered. She's not healed. No, I'm healing.

Matt Darrah (53:15)

abuse inside the walls of the churches and I get angry about it. And that gets misconstrued as like, she's triggered. She's not healed. No, I'm healing.

Heather Ford (53:26)

Yes, I'm triggered, but I'm passionate, angry about it all at the same time. And so, yes, I do have to sit and listen to what's being said by that person and be like, okay, why am I triggered? What's the trigger if I am triggered or is this just me being annoyed?

Matt Darrah (53:26)

Yes, I'm triggered, but I'm passionate, angry about it all at the same time. And so, yes, I do have to sit and listen to what's being said by that person and be like, OK, why am I triggered? What's the trigger if I am triggered? Or is this just me being annoyed?

There's there. It is OK to do those self checks to just be like, OK, what's the trigger?

Heather Ford (53:45)

There's there it is. Okay to do those self checks to just be like, okay, what's the trigger

and And deal with it and say hey, I can't and it's okay to say hey I can't have this conversation with you right now because I'm very triggered and I do that with people I get a lot of people who who say like whenever you're ready I would love to have a conversation with you about God

Matt Darrah (53:51)

and deal with it and say, I can't, and it's okay to say, I can't have this conversation with you right now because I'm very triggered. And I do that with people. I get a lot of people who say like, whenever you're ready, I would love to have a conversation with you about God.

Heather Ford (54:09)

No, no, it's an instant cut off now and it's not and I always say it in a room full of people because or online because you get the people online who come after you but that's not like that or you know, God doesn't do that or that's not God that may not be God to you but that's to me who God is and so I have to put a stop to it and just be like, okay, I am with those closest to me.

Matt Darrah (54:09)

No, no, it's an instant cut off now and it's not and I always say it in a room full of people because or online because you get the people online who come after you but that's not like that or You know, god doesn't do that or that's not god That may not be god to you. But that's to me who god is and so I have to put A stop to it and just be okay. I'm off with those closest to me

Heather Ford (54:39)

I say, I am all for having a conversation with you about God. But it has to be an in-person conversation where we can both sit and hear each other's heart and where we can not misunderstand each other because in text messages, things get misunderstood, right? Right, right. And especially those I'm closest, closest to. I never want to come across that way. I never want to lash out. And that's what I'm working with.

Matt Darrah (54:39)

I say, I am all for having a conversation with you about God. But it has to be an in-person conversation where we can both sit and hear each other's heart. Right. Where we can not misunderstand each other because in text messages, things get misunderstood. Construed, yeah, for sure. Right. Right. And especially those I'm closest, closest to. I never want to come across that way. I never want to lash out. And that's what I'm working with.

Heather Ford (55:08)

very hard on not to lash out on people and not to put it onto people. So I'm all for having a conversation, but it's going to be with somebody I trust, I choose, that I feel safe with. ⁓ I get to choose that. ⁓ I don't talk about it on social media because I just know the realm of the majority of Christians are and they come after me. And so I just shut it down and I just say, no, like we're not having this conversation with you.

Matt Darrah (55:08)

very hard on not to lash out on people and not to put it onto people. So I'm all for having a conversation, but it's going to be with somebody I trust, I choose, that I feel safe with. I get to choose that. I don't talk about it on social media because I just know the realm of the majority of Christians are and they come after me. And so I just shut it down and I just say, no, like we're not having this conversation with you.

Heather Ford (55:35)

⁓

Matt Darrah (55:36)

⁓ and I've learned that like, it's okay to say no, it's okay to say, Hey, and I'm also learning like that's your belief. That's not mine. Cause I used to have that one way thinking that so many cult survivors have like, it's our, it's our belief and our faith or nothing. And so learning that like, okay, that's you may think God is good and maybe in your life he has, but that's not been my case. That's not been for me.

Heather Ford (55:36)

And I've learned that like it's okay to say no, it's okay to say hey, and I'm also learning like That's your belief. That's not mine because I used to have that one-way thinking that so many cult survivors have like It's our it's our belief in our faith or nothing and so learning that like okay, that's you may think God is good and maybe in your life he has But that's not been my case. That's not been for me

And so separating the two, having that boundary and saying, okay, I can hear your perspective and I can respect it to a point, but that's not for me. And learning how to say that in a respectful manner and not like, okay, blah, blah, blah. Like that's not for me. But yeah, healing isn't supposed to be pretty. It's not. It's not supposed to be glamorous.

Matt Darrah (56:05)

And so separating the two, having that boundary and saying, okay, I can hear your perspective and I can respect it to a point, but that's not for me. And learning how to say that in a respectful manner. And not like, okay, blah, blah, blah. Like that's not for me. But yeah, healing isn't supposed to be pretty. It's not. It's not supposed to be glamorous.

Heather Ford (56:35)

It's only glamorous because of the outcome of the healing. It's like looking at my artwork, you'll see like, my gosh, like this is probably the ugliest thing, but like at the end, there's something beautiful. It's supposed to be like that. ⁓ And so yeah, healing obviously has not been easy for me. There's times where it's harder than others. I don't sleep. ⁓ I still have nightmares. ⁓

Matt Darrah (56:35)

It's only glamorous because of the outcome of the healing. It's like looking at my artwork, you'll see like, my gosh, like this is probably the ugliest thing, but like at the end, there's something beautiful. It's supposed to be like that. ⁓ And so yeah, healing obviously has not been easy for me. There's times where it's harder than others. I don't sleep. ⁓ I still have nightmares. ⁓

Heather Ford (57:04)

Yeah, especially over the last two years. I especially haven't slept. I don't remember the last time I actually slept. And so that's why it is vigilant that I have someone checking in on me every night. Let's just say suicide crosses my head and my brain and my mind every day. It's something that is on the table for me, unfortunately, especially when I'm in a bad space. That's just where my head goes.

Matt Darrah (57:04)

Yeah, especially over the last two years. I especially haven't slept. I don't remember the last time I actually slept. And so that's why it is vigilant that I have someone checking in on me every night. Let's just say suicide crosses my head and my brain and my mind every day. It's something that is on the table for me, unfortunately, especially when I'm in a bad space. That's just where my head goes.

Because of everything that I've been through. When I'm in a space, I know that I can call a certain individual. I have an issue calling 9-8-8 because of how they treated Nicole, my sister. When she reached out five times, they didn't help her. And so for me, I find...

Heather Ford (57:33)

because of everything that I've been through. When I'm in a good space, I know that I can call a certain individual. ⁓ I have an issue calling 9-8-8 because of how they treated Nicole, my sister. ⁓ When she reached out five times, they didn't help her. ⁓ And so for me, I find...

Face timing somebody or getting on a social media app talking to somebody better than than calling 9-8-8. In fact, I can FaceTime somebody right now before you said Jesus come and she'd be on the phone. So and that's just to give an example. Like I just I can get somebody quicker on a phone that I can get 9-8-8. It's a joke to me. So

Matt Darrah (58:02)

Face timing somebody or getting on a social media app talking to somebody better than than calling 98. In fact, I can FaceTime somebody right now before you said Jesus come. It should be on the phone. So and that's just to give an example. Like I just I can get somebody quicker on a phone that I can get 98. Well, in that connection.

connection is more important. If you don't have anybody else and you need to call them by all means. Absolutely. If that's what you feel you need to do, so for those listening, please, if you feel you need to call 988, please do. I'm just saying from my experience and what happened with Nicole and my own personal experience, 988 has not worked for

Heather Ford (58:32)

Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's why, yeah, if that's what you feel you need to do. So for those listening, please, if you feel you need to 9-8-8, please do. I'm just saying from my experience and what happened with Nicole and my own personal experience, 9-8-8 has not worked for me.

So to each their own, it's kind of like therapy. Some people prefer

Matt Darrah (58:55)

So to each their own. It's kind of like therapy. Some people prefer

Heather Ford (59:00)

religious therapy, Christian therapy. That's not for me. That might work for you. That doesn't work for me. Some people may do better on medications. That's fine. But for me, I choose to not be medicated on psych meds. I choose to just deal with it head on. And that's just from personal experiences.

Matt Darrah (59:00)

religious therapy, Christian therapy. That's not for me. ⁓ That might work for you. That doesn't work for me. Some people may do better on medications. That's fine. But for me, I choose to not be medicated on psych meds. I choose to just deal with it head on. And that's just from personal experiences.

Heather Ford (59:24)

So it's to each their own. It's what works for you. I choose to not go

Matt Darrah (59:24)

So it's to each their own. It's what works for you. I choose to not go

the religious therapist way. I choose to not go the medication way. That's just my choice. That's my preference. That's it. I just do what's best for me. So you have to evaluate. You have to evaluate for your app. EMDR works great for some people, and other people it doesn't.

Heather Ford (59:29)

the religious therapist way. choose to not go the medication way. That's just my choice. That's my preference. ⁓ That's it. Like I just do what what's best for me. So you have to evaluate and you have to evaluate where you're at.

It doesn't, There's different, yeah, and there's different, there's a plethora of trauma therapies, okay? And there's just, you just have to research it. ⁓ Trauma hypnosis is another one. That worked for me. That may not work for you. And that's okay. EMDR worked for me. It may not work for you. It works for me. Maybe, you know, there's different types of trauma therapy. There's...

Matt Darrah (59:52)

We're all built differently. different, yeah. And there's different, there's a plethora of trauma therapy. ⁓ Yeah. And there's just, you just have to research it. ⁓ Trauma hypnosis is another one. That worked for me. That may not work for you. And that's okay. EMDR worked for me. It may not work for you. It works for me. you know, there's different types of trauma therapy. Yeah.

Heather Ford (1:00:20)

trauma life coaches, okay? There's, yeah, there's just different, you just have to research in Google and you have to just, willing to try, willing to educate yourself. Yeah.

Matt Darrah (1:00:20)

Cognitive behavioral therapy. Yeah, there's just different. You just have to research in Google. Yeah. And you have to just. And be willing to try. Right. willing to educate to say, hey, you know,

what is this thing? Maybe maybe it'll help because you're some some like you like when you with your experience the first time with the MDR, you were not ready. Right. Ready. And then later you were ready.

Heather Ford (1:00:36)

huh.

Mm-hmm. I was not ready.

Matt Darrah (1:00:49)

And I was ready and she tried the whole moving your fingers across your eye. Yeah.

Heather Ford (1:00:49)

And I was ready and she tried the whole moving your fingers across your eye. And

I learned that that actually triggers it more. So they put the stimu thing using your hand and under your leg. And that works for me. And so maybe it is EMDR for you, but maybe it's the eye movement thing that's not going to work, that you need a different kind of method of EMDR. And that's okay. there's, yep. Okay.

Matt Darrah (1:00:59)

So they put the stimuli things in your leg. And that works for me. So maybe it is EMDR for you, but maybe it's the eye movement thing that's not gonna work. You need a different kind of method of EMDR. And that's okay. When I do it, I hold the paddles and then I have the headphones on and do both.

Heather Ford (1:01:19)

Okay, I had the I had them underneath my knee as

Matt Darrah (1:01:19)

I had them underneath my knee.

as well, and that worked really well for me.

Heather Ford (1:01:22)

well and that worked really well for me and.

Matt Darrah (1:01:25)

the important thing is to be willing to try. Try it. I mean, is, healing is possible. We can go through terrible, terrible things and there is healing on the other side. There can be. It's just like coping skills, right? We all have to have a coping skill, right? Like positive and maybe not so healthy.

Heather Ford (1:01:28)

try it. Yeah, just try it.

Mm-hmm.

huh.

Yeah, absolutely. And it's just like coping skills, right? We all have to have a coping skill, right? Like positive in the maybe not so healthy.

Like we all have them. I know for me, I've been told do breathing exercises. Guess what? Breathing exercises don't work for me. I've tried it. It doesn't work. I've tried it many years, multiple times. Breathe in the hole doesn't work. Doesn't work. But

Matt Darrah (1:01:52)

Like we all have them. I know for me, I've been told do breathing exercises. Guess what? Breathing exercises don't work for me. I've tried it. It doesn't work. I've tried it many years, multiple times. Breathe in the hole. Doesn't work. Doesn't work. But

Heather Ford (1:02:09)

I have stuff on my wrist, so if I'm feeling anxious, I just play with these. Like if I feel like I can't breathe, I know it sounds silly,

Matt Darrah (1:02:09)

I have stuff on my wrist. So if I'm feeling anxious, I just play with these. Like if I feel like I can't breathe, I know it sounds silly.

Heather Ford (1:02:18)

but fleece blankets work for me. Like that's something that Nicole used to do for me. ⁓ Put fuzzy socks on my feet, blankets, warm fleece blankets around me, and that's soothing, right? So it doesn't matter. Some people it could be just doing this, or maybe it's playing with your hair.

Matt Darrah (1:02:18)

but fleece blankets work for me. Like that's something that Nicole used to do for me. Put fuzzy socks on, the blankets, warm fleece blankets around me. And that's soothing, right? So it doesn't matter. Some people, could be just doing this, or maybe it's playing with your hair

or whatever it is. Nobody needs to know. However you need to know. it's okay. There's different breathing exercises may not work for you. Some, it may work.

Heather Ford (1:02:37)

or whatever it is, nobody needs to know, however you need to know. it's okay, there's different breathing exercises may not work for you. Some, it may work,

it doesn't matter. It just, whatever works for you. You know?

Matt Darrah (1:02:48)

It doesn't matter. It's just whatever works for you. Wow.

Well, Heather, man, such a good, ⁓ know, a tough story with, think, ⁓ I think that there's there's a,

I think hope is, through your story, right? I mean, it's tough, it's a hard story. ⁓ But at the same time, you're finding healing, right? You haven't fully arrived yet. I haven't fully arrived yet. I don't know anybody that came out of a traumatic situation that says, hey, I'm done.

Heather Ford (1:03:15)

Mm-hmm.

Nobody.

Yeah, that says I'm fully healed.

Yeah.

Matt Darrah (1:03:40)

No problem anymore. I'm all I'm good. I don't know anybody like that now Are there people out there probably are people out there that are that way? It's it hadn't been my experience but the truth is it's it's it's but the the healing is a process that that and and so there's hope Yeah, and I mean there was things that I thought were healed between my sister and I and between my foster family and I

Heather Ford (1:03:44)

next.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and I mean, there was things that I thought were healed between my sister and I and between my foster family and I. And when she died,

it's been downhill since then. mean, the nightmares, the flashbacks, mean, just the fight, like just just when you think you've healed something, even when my dad died, I was like, ⁓ that's been healed. That's been talked out. Nope. So just just remember, like there are blocked memories. There are. And it just and it may take.

Matt Darrah (1:04:10)

It's been downhill since then. I mean, the nightmares, the flashbacks. mean, just the... Like, just when you think you've healed something. Even when my dad died, I was like, ⁓ that's been healed. That's been talked out. Sure. Yeah. So just remember, like, there are blocked memories. Yeah. There are. And it just... And it may take.

Heather Ford (1:04:30)

Unfortunately, it can take a tragic situation like losing my sister. Yeah.

Matt Darrah (1:04:31)

Unfortunately, it can take a tragic situation like losing my sister. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

I really appreciate you coming on to share. We'll put a link in the show notes for folks ⁓ to find your book. Where else can they find you? Like social or website? Yeah, you can find me on Instagram under religiouscultsurvivor1006. You can find me the same on TikTok.

Heather Ford (1:04:56)

Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram under religiouscults survivor 1006. You can find me the same on TikTok.

I do have a Facebook, but I tend to not give out now, unfortunately, just for privacy. Or you can email me if you want to reach out to me more private at Heather M. Ford 89 at gmail.com. Go ahead and reach out to me. And then my book is on Amazon.

Matt Darrah (1:05:07)

I do have Facebook, but I tend to not give that one out. Just for privacy. ⁓ Or you can email me. If you want to reach out to me more private, ⁓ heathermford89 at gmail.com. Go ahead and reach out to me. And then my book is on Amazon.

Awesome. Well, I look forward to... I really hope some folks will resonate with your story and be willing to...

Heather Ford (1:05:33)

Yeah.

Matt Darrah (1:05:35)

maybe step out and try some different kinds of therapies and read your book. And I do, I hope that you continue to fight the fight and work through the struggles. you know, mean, ⁓ you know, it's a tough deal that you've been through. so, you know, just keep your head up ⁓ and keep walking.

Every day. You know? Well, fantastic. Well, guys, thank you for tuning in. Guys, we do placement packages for kiddos coming into foster care. And so every kiddo gets a suitcase, a Bible, a teddy bear, a book, a toy, and a blanket. And then beyond that, it's whatever the family needs. So it could be clothes. It could be diapers. It could be wipes and bottles and formula and all the things. so and then we deliver.

Heather Ford (1:06:06)

Absolutely.

Matt Darrah (1:06:34)

to the 26 counties of the pain handle. And so we need, it's a nonprofit, takes funds to run a nonprofit. And so you can go to my website, panhandleorphan.org/donation and set up a monthly gift there. That would be tremendously helpful. And then following, liking, sharing, subscribing, we have some really powerful stories on this podcast. And so we want more and more folks to be aware of it.

and to follow and to learn some things, hear about some stories and ⁓ things like that. So thank you guys for tuning in. Heather, thank you so much for coming on and just being willing to kind of bear your soul. And I guess I just want to say one last thing ⁓ to the caseworkers listening, to the foster parents listening, to the good ones, the ones that do their job.

Heather Ford (1:07:16)

Thank you for having

Yeah, and I guess I just want to say one last thing to the caseworkers listening, to the foster parents listening, to the good ones, ⁓ the ones that do their job.

Thank you for all that you do. ⁓ In no way, or form, do I discredit any good caseworker. ⁓ I know your work is hard ⁓ and you're under pressure.

Matt Darrah (1:07:34)

Thank you for all that you do. In no way, or form, ⁓ do I discredit any good caseworker? ⁓ I know your work is hard. For sure. you're under pressure.

And there's cases that I can only imagine that you deal with, similar to mine. And so just know that in no way, shape, or form am I throwing you guys under the bus. I was fortunate to have really good caseworkers.

Heather Ford (1:07:48)

And there's cases that I can only imagine that you deal with, similar to mine. ⁓ And so just know that no way, or form am I throwing you guys under the bus. I was fortunate to have really good case workers

and a really good law enforcement that really cared. ⁓ The same to our law enforcement. Thank you for all you do to protect our children. And to the foster parents listening.

Matt Darrah (1:08:03)

and a really good law enforcement that really cared. ⁓ The same to our law enforcement. Thank you for all you do to protect our children. And to the foster parents listening,

to the ones that actually care, thank you for all that you do. I can't say it enough. ⁓

Heather Ford (1:08:16)

to the ones that actually care. Thank you for all that you do. I can't say it enough. ⁓

and to my own foster family, if you are watching this, I love you and I'm here.

Matt Darrah (1:08:29)

and to my own foster family if you are watching this I love you and I'm

here.

Hmm.

Thank you for sharing Heather. Thank you.

All right, guys, thank you for tuning in to a powerful ⁓ testimony with a lot of struggles, but a lot of hope. so thank you for tuning in, Cassie. Thank you for your episode sponsorship. Be sure to tune in next week. Thank you and have a great day.