Diagnoses, Labels, and Living Beyond Them

Matt Darrah (00:00.91)

Hello and welcome to All Things Foster, a place for coffee, connection, and community. Our episode today is sponsored by Sundy Sharp with AMC Mortgage in Amarillo. She can help with any residential mortgage needs and specializes in first-time home buyers to help start their journey to generational wealth. She's a local lender and is licensed to write mortgages for the whole state of Texas. They have lots of loans available.

and AMC is an equal housing lender. Call or text her today at 806-683-0313 or check out their website at www.buywithsundy.com. That's B-U-Y-W-I-T-H-S-U-N-D-Y.com. So buywithsundy.com or

www.amcmtg.com. We're joined again today with Hannah. Thank you so much for coming back on the podcast. This is episode three in our five-part series. Thanks for coming. Yeah, thanks for having me again. Absolutely. Today's topic is diagnoses, labels, and living beyond them. We've been talking about trauma and

largely the goal is to learn more about trauma, but to get to the place where we understand that trauma is reversible. We can learn to live with trauma. And so that's our end goal. It is a hard topic. We've been hitting pretty hard the last couple of weeks. And so we want to keep the end goal in mind, that the trauma, we can reverse the effects of trauma. So today we're going to talk about labels.

diagnoses and things like that. So Hannah, kind of give our audience another intro on what you do and why you know what you know. Yeah. So I did a bachelor's at the University of Missouri in Kansas City. I studied under Dr. Aaron Hambrick, is someone who works closely with Dr. Bruce Perry, which I know we've talked about on the show quite a bit. I did my master's at West Texas A

Matt Darrah (02:21.165)

and then currently working on my PhD. So my focus throughout all of those years has centered around trauma and or suicide or combination, you know, looking at them both together. In fact, my dissertation right now is focused on sexual assault. And so as far as trauma is concerned, I have a lot of experience. you know, I was telling Matt before the episode that

The further I get in my education, the more I realize I know nothing. And so it's a very humbling experience. It felt like when I was in my bachelor's, it's like, man, I'm really getting this. I know a lot about the field. And the further and further in my field I get, the less and less I realize I actually know. So I'm constantly learning. would argue anyone with a PhD, you're never finished learning, regardless of what degree you hold.

The purpose behind these is really to help provide that education to people who may not have easy access to it, break it down so it's a little bit more digestible than complex scientific, you know, published articles. So yeah, I have a lot of experience personally just with trauma and then also working with individuals and clients who have a history of trauma as well. It's something I'm really passionate about.

I got into it actually because my grandpa is a Vietnam War veteran. So he's told me some stories about his experience coming back from the war. And that's what really launched me into this niche within psychology is hearing his stories and the justice part of me going, I want to see something change where that's concerned.

We are. We're constantly learning more and more, really and truly, I think, about the amazingness of the brain and the ability to go through something and heal from that and overcome that. And we as caregivers play a huge role in helping those kiddos overcome those traumas. We've got to overcome them in our own lives. So many, so many

Matt Darrah (04:38.381)

of the foster and adoptive families that I know, they're doing it because they lived it. Yeah. Right? I they and so learning about our own traumas so that we can overcome them and walk through that with the kiddos that are in our care too. Yeah. And so I just I really think it's super important to dig deep into trauma, understanding it and overcoming it.

Like I say, both in our own lives and in the lives of the kiddos that are in our care. Yeah. And I would argue that when it comes to trauma, know, absolutely there can be healing with it, but you never heal and move past it. You learn to move on with it and carry that. And, you know, in the last episode, we talked about storytelling and sharing your story to safe individuals, be it a therapist, a parent, whoever.

can really benefit the person. so, yeah, I just kind of want to remove that stigma that trauma is not someone's identity, right? What you've been through. I always tell people that you can't control what happened to you, but you can control how you respond to it. You have that agency and you have the autonomy and the power.

to change how you respond to it or to move on with it. people who experience abuse, sometimes they repeat that cycle. And that's kind of their decision to repeat it. What happened to them was not their fault, but continuing the cycle is. And then there are those who choose to break those cycles. And breaking cycles is hard. It's so hard. Sometimes it feels impossible.

And other days it feels like you're on top of the world and you just climb Mount Everest and you're winning at life and then next thing you know you look down and you're like, still gotta get down the mountain. Yeah. So a little bit of a disclaimer because we are talking heavy, heavy stuff. But we want to keep in mind that it's possible...

Matt Darrah (06:53.323)

to learn to live with and move on. And our last episode, episode five of this series, is all going to be about the reversibility of trauma because we can, we can move past it. And so, keep that in mind as we listen. If you haven't caught the first two episodes, I strongly encourage you to go back and listen to those and then pick up on this one.

We're building a scaffold. We laid the foundation of understanding trauma, big T, little T. Then last week we busted the myth that you're either born with it and that's how you're going to be, it's all about nature. And then we talked about how nurture, it's both and. We talked about that. And so today we're going to talk about

the diagnoses, the labels and living beyond them. And so we're building this foundation so that everybody can understand. So if you haven't listened to them, I strongly encourage you to go back and listen to those. And then another disclaimer, guys, we are not giving you the tools to diagnose yourself. You are not objective in your ability to diagnose yourself. Right. Right. And so

We're talking about these things so that we can understand them, but we're not, we're not, we are not psychologists, psychiatrists, those of you listening and me are not and don't have the tools to diagnose yourself. So we're not trying to do that. We're trying to understand the diagnoses and how to move over them. So what are we really kind of expecting to learn in?

this episode. Yeah. So this will be probably one of the shorter episodes of our series, because again, my goal here is is and I'll even tell you, as someone who has a master's and is currently working on a PhD in this field, it would be unethical for me to even diagnose myself. Right. It's unethical for me to treat and diagnose someone that I know, be it a friend or family member. And so really emphasizing that

Matt Darrah (09:13.121)

Please don't take this as diagnosing yourself like you said, but understanding these diagnoses a little bit and then also trying to de-stigmatize mental health a little bit more while also knowing, especially if someone's seeing a psychiatrist, those physicians generally don't spend a lot of time with their patients.

And so a lot of words or diagnoses can get thrown out. So helping people maybe understand a little bit more about what those mean and that, yes, it will feel like a label, but that is not, again, like trauma is not your identity. That diagnosis is not your identity. And so that's really what this will be focused on. And that myth being busted is for this episode is really going to be the myth of you are your diagnosis.

well, I'm someone who, you know, I'm a PTSD sufferer. I'm a someone. I'm autistic. Whatever the case may be. I'm my diagnosis, which that's just a myth. And that's really, I think more than a myth, it's the stigma talking to. Right. So a lot of times when you get slapped with a label, you walk around with it the rest of your life, or at least you feel like you do. there may come a point where

You don't actually really fully meet the criteria for a diagnosis anymore. But people just continue to live thinking that is their identity. And the reality is that we want to change the dialogue from this is who I am to this is information about me to help me navigate life. Exactly. Right. If it's somebody on the let's say on the autism spectrum and they have trouble with

eye contact, for example, that's information about them that can help them navigate life or help others around them understand the situation. And so taking that diagnosis instead of using it as a label, using it as information of this is what I know about myself. How do I best care for myself? Yeah. And so and so caring for ourselves, but also caring for the kiddos that are in our care, not to say

Matt Darrah (11:36.398)

You are this, but you have this and you are moving beyond it, learning to live with it, right? That's living beyond the label, right? So we're gonna bust that myth. You are not your diagnosis. So what are the stressors in trauma-related disorders? Just kind of as a broad topic.

Well, I'll give the disclaimer again that I'm not the biggest fan of the DSM. You know, I do think we're making a lot of strides in the field to...

to expand research, know, a lot of the research done within the field in the early DSM, so the diagnostic statistic manuals that we use to diagnose people was done predominantly on white men. And we know that cross-culturally, cross-genders, those same criteria may not apply. So what might present as PTSD in a white man may look completely different in a child. And in fact, it does.

But generally speaking, trauma and stressor related disorders are disorders that result due to some sort of extreme stress or a trauma. In fact, I was at a conference one time and somebody had made the comment and I hadn't really thought about it. It kind of passed it off. I wrote the note and then went back to it later and was sitting with it that trauma and stressor related disorders are one of the few

if not the only set of disorders that is the result of an external issue. So if, for example, let's say bipolar, which is a major mood disorder, that is a chemical imbalance in the brain. Post-traumatic stress disorder does not happen unless there is some sort of trauma. Depression can happen without trauma. Right. And so

Matt Darrah (13:46.318)

I think there's again caveats to a lot of things within the field. I said last episode. it depends. It really does depend. But broadly speaking, they're just a group of emotional and behavioral problems that result from some sort of traumatic event or something extremely stressful. And when I say stressful, again, I'm not meaning it's finals week and my gosh, I'm stressed. It could be the instability of finances. That's like a little T-trauma potentially of

of just having that instability, not knowing if you're going to be able to pay your bills or whatever. I want to read again, I didn't put it in these notes, but again, I want to read the definition of trauma that I use as opposed to what the DSM says, because there's a key word in there that I've talked about in the previous two episodes that I think is really crucial. So again, I'm going to read from my notes because I don't have it memorized by heart.

But by concept and so this is according to the substance abuse and mental health services administration Trauma is any event or a set of experiences or multiple events that an individual perceives which is the key word in this definition as Physically or emotionally harmful and or life-threatening and that has a lasting

adverse effect on their functioning, be it in mental, physical, social, emotional, and or spiritual areas of well-being. This definition makes clear the impact of trauma and that it's not limited by time or restricted to only some parts of a person's individual experience. And so I love that definition more than the DSM because it actually even talks kind of hints at emotional abuse.

which the DSM does not address at all. And do you think that change is forthcoming? Do think they're going to change that at some point? I do think it's possible because there's, you know, in everything in life there are fads that come up. And I remember when I was in undergrad talking to my advisor about how kind of the fad at the time within psychology was trauma, right? Everything was a trauma response or everything was, that's a trauma. I'm traumatized. just using that word inappropriately and...

Matt Darrah (16:03.455)

in a wrong way. And so right now I'm seeing a lot of narcissism talked about within the field and on social media. And narcissism and that emotional abuse tend to go hand in hand a lot of times. And so I do think it could be forthcoming.

But we are slow to make those changes simply because it requires so much research, right? And we've got to test things across a wide variety of populations. So I'm hopeful that APA came out just this last year, really for the first time, truly acknowledging the existence of complex post-traumatic stress disorder, which is huge because it's not even in the DSM. They have PTSD, but not CPTSD.

And so I think there are really positive changes that are happening and will come. And I hope to see a change in their definition as well in the years to come. So let's talk about the impact of the label, both clinically and socially. So clinically, the point of the label. Yeah, so clinically,

There's the insurance issue. Everything's got to have something. Oh my gosh. Which I can get on a whole soapbox of. And I tell people this all the time. I'm so frustrated. Right. I can go to my primary care physician just for a checkup. And they have a code. It's called a CPT code. That's just for a wellness exam. Yeah. Like a regular checkup. They don't have to put an actual diagnosis and say something's wrong with me. Yeah. Mental health. They don't have a code like that. They have to essentially diagnose you with something.

And so I have friends who see therapists as well. A lot of us in the field have our own therapists and there are therapists who specialize in seeing mental health professionals. And it's kind of a not so well kept secret that those therapists will use adjustment disorder.

Matt Darrah (18:07.837)

For insurance purposes because again, they have to have something a diagnosis and that's part of the reason why so many therapists are moving away from taking insurance Yeah, it's because of the label issue That's not the only reason but from those I've talked to that is part of the reason because they hate slapping that label on someone and Seeing how it impacts them negatively when in reality

If a therapist is providing a true diagnosis and not just trying to bill for insurance, the purpose of that should be, is information about my clients, this is information for them about themselves, and for us to work on in therapy. And so that's really what that looks like clinically. On the social side of things, labels ultimately influence how people see you. So when I my tattoos covered,

people approach me and I hate it. Low key. Because I'm an introvert at heart. Yeah. And I have what's affectionately known as RBF, which stands for resting bitch face. And it is bad. And I've had people ask me like, are you mad? And it's like, no, it's just my face. Especially when I'm studying. Apparently it's way worse, according to the baristas at the Starbucks I go to.

And so those labels, right? So tattoos kind of come with a stigma. Sometimes my parents are of the generation that like if you have tattoos, you must be a drug dealer, being a gang or something crazy. my gosh. They threaten me. Basically, like if you get a tattoo before you finish school, we'll stop helping you, you know. And every time I show up with a new one, I can just see the look on my mom's face of, you know. But anyway.

So labels are important in our society, not in the sense of like we need to have labels, but in realizing people take those labels and that's how they perceive you. Yeah. Right. So once I get my doctorate, it'll be Dr. Doggett. That label brings with it more than especially in professional settings will carry more weight than me using my first name per se. Just just that label alone of having a doctorate.

Matt Darrah (20:30.157)

And so socially, when you get diagnosed with something, especially if you're open about it, that could be good or bad. In the area we live in, unfortunately, mental health is still very stigmatized. In fact, I'd argue in the state, it's still pretty stigmatized. There are areas that it's better. But here, it seems to be an issue of like, we still don't really talk about it. You go to therapy, great, keep it to yourself. Like, I don't want to hear about it.

And I am pretty open with people. I'm like, you know, I go to therapy regularly and that's part of my self care because I see some horrific things. I don't doubt it. Yeah. And and I can't pour from an empty cup at the end of the day. But I also know that that can that people have seen me differently in in simply sharing that. And it wasn't sharing to try and get sympathy. It's just

Having that open conversation is what destigmatizes it. So, yeah, it potentially could lead to discrimination, which I've experienced even recently, discrimination, and reduced access to opportunities, right, if you have mental health issues. And so that discrimination still very much so exists. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so the label is important.

from a clinical side, but the, like you said, the social implication, a lot of times can be really negative. And so we need the labels, but we also need to get to a place where the label doesn't define us, doesn't totally...

wreck us and the folks that are around us. So let's talk about some of the... We're sure it's not going to fit all of them in here. We're going to be here till next week. But some of the trauma, stressors and disorders that we can just kind of 10,000 view. Yeah. So I won't go... Like I was telling you before the episode and for the audience, I'm not going to go into the...

Matt Darrah (22:55.341)

criteria for each one of these because again, my goal is not to put you in a position where or anyone where they feel like they are able to or want to diagnose themselves. Yeah. But really just to provide information about these. So I'll talk about the first two because they go hand in hand. So post traumatic stress disorder and acute stress disorder. The only difference between these two things is acute stress disorder.

is anything that is essentially that group of symptomology that lasts 30 days or less. Once it hits that 31-day mark, it's PTSD. And that could be for, you know, a total of 60 days. There's also a delayed onset of PTSD. There are plenty of veterans who have come back from the war, any war, my grandpa being one of them actually.

And he told me that it was six months before he really even started to have any symptoms. And so delayed onset is a real thing too. Sure. And so that's really the only difference between those two is just how long you have the symptoms. It doesn't have to do with what type of trauma or how long ago the trauma took place. It's how long have the symptoms been going on. The next. let's get we haven't really defined.

PTSD. Yeah. Well, we haven't. I can talk a little bit about it. Posttraumatic stress disorder is probably the most common that most people are aware of. In fact, I think I just got something in the mail because I do the PTSD stamps, the PTSD awareness stamps. And I know that even the USPS will do things for veterans, you know, and have a little ribbon on them, the green ribbon for mental health and

So it's a group of symptoms that can range from hyper arousal, hyper vigilance, reactivation. So those could be like, it really is a lot of symptoms. So flashbacks, night terrors, hyper vigilance, avoiding reminders of that trauma. So it could be avoiding the color red if your offender was wearing a red shirt.

Matt Darrah (25:12.941)

It really is a huge range of symptomology. Poor sleep. In fact, PTSD used to be housed under the group of anxiety disorders because those two things, you see a lot of anxiety within post-traumatic stress disorder. And we'll talk a little bit about comorbidity, which just means presence of multiple diagnoses.

But yeah, PTSD is the result of experiencing something traumatic. Again, the DSM defines it differently than what I read earlier. And so the way they define it, there are a lot of people I know who have the symptomology of PTSD, but because their trauma doesn't fit under the DSM's definition, they technically wouldn't qualify for it because that is the first criteria. That's great. Is that you have to meet something in that definition.

With that being said, a lot of therapists, again, don't religiously stick to that definition within the DSM. you said something that confused me initially when I heard it a few years ago, but you talked about hyperarousal. And so when we use that term, we're not talking sexual. Right. Right. Can you define what...

what in this space would arousal means. So hyper arousal in this space, think about physiologically that heart rate being up, hyper arousal symptoms. You could also see that hyper vigilance. Right. So kind of just that your cortisol is elevated physiologically, your blood pressure might be up, your heart rate might be up. So your body is physically, again, not sexually, but physically more aroused than it should be. Yeah.

in that situation. that's generally, again, hyperarousal is kind of an umbrella term for a number of symptoms. And so that's really what it means. And I'm glad you clarified because most people hear the word arousal and they don't think about like increased heart rate or whatever. yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I ran into that. It may have been when I started listening to Robin's

Matt Darrah (27:36.062)

podcast or something I ran into that and it kind of Stuck me for a second. Wait a minute. What this five-year-old's not aroused, right? You know, and so it took took a little bit for me to figure that I want to make sure that folks understood that so yeah Okay, so we did PTSD acute stress disorder and just what's the adjustment disorder? Adjustment disorder is generally a stressor related disorder. So imagine you pick up your life and move to a new city

and you experience extreme anxiety or depression as a result of that. In fact, in the DSM, there's three kind of specifiers. It's acute disorder with predominantly depression or not acute, sorry, adjustment with predominantly anxiety, prominently depression, and then other specified and then, know, therapists can kind of fill in the blank. But so it's more stressor related.

And it's you're having difficulty adjusting to your new circumstance. That's really what it means. And so it is one of it's like the catch all disorder that therapists tend to use when they're when they're treating people because at least the therapists that I'm I'm around and I work with and I know they don't like slapping labels on people either. And for insurance purposes.

Got to something. Got to have something. And so they'll put adjustment disorder. Yeah. And then they'll just kind of switch between anxiety, depression, other and go back and forth. Because insurance will actually come back and say, well, for this, you you can treat them for X amount of time. you're working with trauma survivors, you can't put a time frame on that because everyone's going to respond and react differently to processing what what's happened. When I was a kid, because we were adopted through foster, we were on Medicaid. I didn't understand

But we were told, my parents told us that we could see a counselor, but it was only six sessions. And I was like, six sessions? I'm not even gonna know the guy. I'm not, I mean, I'm not doing it. And so yeah, it's just, to me that was just frustrating. And one of the things that I think the state should, or really the government,

Matt Darrah (29:56.288)

ought to look at and consider, in my opinion, with regards to foster and adoptive families is the fact that we're welcoming these children into our homes. And there are some support mechanisms for the child, but anything you need is on you. Yeah. Right. And so

We have the episode on vicarious trauma. So many foster and adoptive parents have vicarious trauma because they're listening to all of these stories and they're afraid that the kid's going go back and all these things and so they end up with it. But you're, you know, figure it out. There's not that mental health support piece.

directly in that maybe the state pays for counseling or does this or does that. It's, you know, well, I hope you have insurance and hope the insurance has some sort of medical or mental health piece. You know, because that's still separated in a lot of insurance. There's the physical and then the behavioral health. And it's it's there. There's another myth of like, is it my is mind and body separate? And they're not.

You know the mind impacts the body and the body impacts the mind and so you know that's another frustration I have with insurances One you have to have the diagnosis and then two They're still kind of separating out that that your brain The mental health part is completely separate right from the rest of the body, which is just so incorrect Dr. Perry in what I keep referencing what happened to you because to me it was just such a such a good book, but they

They went, Dr. Perry went to somewhere in Australia. What's the group that lived there? The Aborigines, I think. And they had this whole health perspective that with physiological, medical things,

Matt Darrah (32:13.889)

But they integrated the mental health piece in this really beneficial, and I'd have to go back and reread that section to really... But it just jumped out at me that the way that they see it is so different than the way we see it here in the US, that, you know, yeah, physical health is over here and mental health is over here, and one's not associated to the other and all the things. Yeah, I remember watching a TED talk.

And this really shifted my perspective on how we in the West handle mental health. And I can't, I haven't been able to find it since, but it stuck with me so much that I still remember it pretty clearly. A therapist went over to an area in Africa and went to go meet with some tribes and he was describing to them therapy in the U.S.

And the response from one of the tribal leaders was, that sounds horrible. You're putting one person in a room alone with a therapist and sometimes it's dark and they're supposed to sit there and talk about the worst things that have ever happened to them. And don't get me wrong, I believe there's a place and a time to do things like that. And processing through what you've experienced

storytelling again. Telling your story is crucial and important. And so this mental health professional was talking to them about, how do you handle it? And they take kind of a holistic approach like you were talking about. Well, we as a community will come together around that person and we will like give them compliments and positive phrases about who they are.

outside, right? So we're in the sun in the West. We're stuck inside more times than not. Right. Like I have to take vitamin D just to be a normal limit and being a ginger. Like I try and avoid the sun anyway, because I'll get burnt in 30 seconds or less. And they just take this more holistic approach to building the person up. And and his you know, that that tribal leader was like sticking them in a room alone sounds

Matt Darrah (34:39.713)

depressing. And I remember thinking, wow, this has changed my perspective on a few things, because that's all I had known was really how the West does therapy. And, you know, after my PhD, I plan to get licensed and be able to implement kind of a holistic approach, because even for myself, you you and I were talking, you know, before the episode about

I started powerlifting the end of 2023 and I was already fairly active. I grew up active playing soccer and martial arts, know, stayed active playing powder puff football when I moved to college and all the things. And but I hit this point in my mental health where it was like some things got to shift and change. And therapy is great. It was helping me. It still helps me. I still see a therapist.

But I really needed to step back and take a holistic approach myself. And so that's when I really started to look at diet. You you and I talked about the importance of diet as well as being active. Research actually, there was a specific study that looked at, believe it was four groups. So there was a control group, which means they did nothing. They just went about their life as normal. They had the antidepressant group.

They had the exercise group, and then they had an antidepressant plus exercise group. So that's kind of almost the golden standard of a research study that you would want to see. In short, the findings suggest that exercise is just as effective, if not more at times, than antidepressants. Again, this is psychology, so it depends on the person, the situation.

but just exercise alone. And it's multifaceted because looking at like if you exercise, it's going to build your confidence, build up self-esteem. But there's also the endorphins that run the runners high. can think about, mean, when I when I benched my max just what last week or something, I finally hit my goal that there's nothing that could replace could have replaced that feeling. And so I've thought about

Matt Darrah (37:01.197)

you know, that holistic approach as well of what would happen if if a therapist had a gym space and they combine those two things like let's walk on the treadmill and talk. Yeah. Or or whatever. so interesting. Yeah. It just I know it's kind of a tangent minute, but I have there's again pros and cons to everything, pros and cons to how Eastern medicine might handle mental health versus Western.

you know, we're more of an individualistic culture. country as a whole. Yeah, versus the collectivistic where, you know, in those African tribes or even, you know, China and Asia, that area is more collectivistic. So they're going to look at, you know, a family unit as a whole, whereas we do more individual. Right. Yeah. OK. OK, so we did adjustment, reactive attachment. Mm hmm.

So these next two are generally seen in children more than adults. So reactive attachment and then we have disinhibited social engagement disorder. You can kind of think of these as almost polar opposites to an extent. Reactive attachment is essentially that. They're super reactive in their attachment style.

You know, we talked about that last episode and to the severe point, everybody has an attachment style. But when it's severe and it's impacting your functioning is when it starts to become a disorder. And I think a lot of people kind of misunderstand that too is if you can function, it may not be a full disorder per the DSM. Again, we're going off the DSM, you know.

Individual therapists might say something different. Disinhibited social engagement disorder is essentially like they have no inhibitions that will keep them from going with a stranger. Sure. So like if somebody pulled up with tacos, I would get in that van so fast. if they're from El Guiro and they're carne asada. Like that's how you kidnap me right there. That right there.

Matt Darrah (39:23.937)

Thankfully, I have inhibitions that would keep me from that. So maybe I wouldn't get in the van, depends on how many tacos you have. But these kids are the ones that are... Think about the kids on a leash. know, parents put those leash backpacks on. Those might... I'm not saying all of those kids have this, but they're the ones that are like, look, I want to go talk to this person. They have no inhibitions. So they don't really have that concept of fear keeping them from going with a stranger.

or running away from parents, whereas reactive attachment is, I'm going to freak out if my parents aren't here, to the extreme side of it. those two are really more seen in the pediatric population. But in fact, I don't know any therapists personally. I'm not saying it doesn't happen because I don't want to generalize, but I don't know any therapist personally that has ever used those diagnoses for adults. those are generally

pediatric specific. Interesting. On PTSD, I do want to make a note and I'll probably talk about it a little bit later. PTSD in kids does not look like PTSD in adults. Sure. In fact, years ago, they tried to get something called developmental trauma disorder added to the DSM. it was essentially the PTSD for kids.

but with proper symptomology of how kids with trauma histories actually present. And that varies. Dr. Perry in his book, Boy Who Was Raised as a Dog, he actually talks about having clients who were diagnosed with various other things. he, because he's both an MD and a PhD, so he's got really best of both worlds. He's a neurologist, right?

He's a psychiatrist and a psychologist. Okay. Yeah. And so he has the ability to prescribe if and when needed. But then the psychologist side of him spends times with his patients. Right. Or at least did. You know, right now he runs like the child trauma academy and I'm sure he's he's super busy. But. So developmental trauma disorder would have kind of helped to. Account for.

Matt Darrah (41:49.826)

the symptomology seen in that pediatric trauma exposed population. I know it was shot down. I don't know why. You know, the DSM and APA proposed changes a lot of times and it's got to go through, you know, all the paces and red tape, but yeah. Okay. So those are just a few small handful, but probably, would you say these are the most common?

Yeah, especially so in kids, those bottom three. So adjustment disorder, reactive attachment and disinhibited social engagement. I say adjustment disorder. That one kind of overlaps with adults and kids. Because think about, you know, even if I was a kid, you know, my my mom was a military brat. I'm a military brat, but I just never I didn't have to move around like my mom did. And, you know, she lived in Iran and a

in a bunch of these other places, those are really big adjustments. And so we can absolutely see that disorder in kiddos, but we see it in adults as well. PTSD, acute stress disorder, it's not to say those aren't diagnosed in children, but it generally just doesn't present that symptomology isn't the same. I think Dr. Perry actually talks about

One of his patients who was diagnosed as being on the spectrum, severely on the spectrum, and he started treating that child, you know, treating the trauma in that child's life and some of those symptoms started to alleviate. Again, that's not to say that all autism is trauma and not all trauma turns into autism. It's just to point out the fact that trauma in kids is not, is really just not PTSD as the DSM lays it out.

All right. So, causes and contributing factors to this small handful of diagnoses. Yeah. So, in episode one, and I want to echo what Matt said at the start of the episode, is if you're at this point, I'd recommend you pausing and really going back and listening and watching episode one because we break down types of trauma.

Matt Darrah (44:03.999)

and we define them a lot more, but these can be everything from that single incident to complex traumas, so things that happen over the course of your life, developmental, so that'll be anything that happens when you're, you know, essentially under 18, acute, which is this just recently happened, it's generally a one-time thing, or chronic, you know, that neglect that a kid might experience in their home or that...

that abuse over and over and over again. And again, going back to this previous episode, episode two, there's a role, both environmental and genetic. And so we have to consider both of those as well as the social and cultural factors. If you are a Caucasian family bringing in an African-American foster kid, you need to understand that culture a bit more because that is a different culture.

Right. Even even growing up in a military family for me, that culture is different from a lot of my friends who don't have military parents. Sure. And so understanding where those kids, you know, foster kids are coming from in their own culture will be really beneficial. Again, that takes us back to, know, the previous episode where we talked about epigenetics. So, again, reiterating, please, if you if you've made it this far and you haven't listened to episode one and two, please.

Pause, go do that and then come back to here. Yeah, for sure. For sure. So, symptom manifestation. What does that look like? It depends. There you go. man. I answered it for you. See, I can give you a PhD in psychology. You already have the answer to all of it now. It depends. I should just write that on my dissertation and see what my chair does. What's the answer to this? It depends. It really depends, Dr. Blackmon.

So it it again adults and kids, it's going to vary even between two adults, between two kids. It's going to look different. You know, we talked I talked a little bit last episode about my own experiences talking with my sister about the home in which we grew up having very different perceptions of what happened and what went on and and even very different reactions. Right. She was in.

Matt Darrah (46:26.409)

At that time, when we were growing up, she was more of the pushback rebel when we were younger and has become more of the, I'm just going to avoid the conflict because it's not helping anybody. I am the opposite. When I was a kid, I was the kind of the doormat and wanted to avoid the conflict, wanted to be the good kid. And I've turned probably because some of my work.

I at this point, I'm like, I'm going to advocate for myself and these are my boundaries. And if you cross them, there will be consequences. And so the symptom manifestation, you've got everything from emotional, which could be that ranges. Right. So let's just talk about anger for a second. Which is a secondary emotion.

Most of the time. Not all the time, but most of the time it is secondary. Yes. So because anger, just socially speaking, tends to be more accepted than if somebody is sitting in an office crying. Right? And so I know of someone who just cannot handle negative emotions whatsoever. And they would just be like, ah, it'll be fine. That's really, really invalidating. Right. And so when it comes to the emotional side,

being mindful of what emotion and helping them name it. Right, last episode I talked about how naming the emotions and I taught my students when I taught freshmen, naming the emotion actually helps to decrease its power over you. So there's a book and I want to recommend it to everybody. If you don't have it, it's called Atlas of the Heart by Brene Brown. She breaks down

I think 80 something emotions that she's found in her research. So she's got a PhD in social work. Atlas of the heart of the heart. Yes. I'll link it down below to perfect. Perfect. So I highly recommend that book because and I'm talking it's maybe a couple pages per emotion. But if I sat down and I like if I asked you right now, can you tell me the difference between envy and jealousy? Most people can't tell you the difference between those two, but they are different. Yeah.

Matt Darrah (48:41.549)

Envy is being essentially wishing you had something that you don't. Jealousy is being afraid that something you have could be taken away from you. And so being able to name those emotions, being able to say I'm overwhelmed versus stressed, because those are different. Understanding grief versus sadness.

because those are different levels, kind of the same coin, but different levels. Grief is deeper. And so that book, she breaks them down really well, I think is beneficial for everybody just to read. I've got it on my shelf at home. I go back to it regularly, trying to figure out what emotion I'm feeling. like, don't know what's going on, but there's something. And know, flip through the pages. So we've got the emotional aspect, cognitive.

In anyone who's experienced trauma, memory lapses, there could be brain fog. I mean, just cognitively speaking, trauma can actually change the volume of the amygdala, which is your emotion regulation center of your brain, the volume of the hippocampus, which is your memory center. And so if it can change the volume of that, imagine...

like the implications cognitively of it. And that could be either making it smaller or larger. There's been studies that have found both, especially in the pediatric population. so trauma, again, we talked about epigenetics, how it impacts genes. It has a neurobiological effect as well on the brain. There's the physical impact, especially in abuse cases and in those severe trauma cases, but also

just physiologically, if we think about cortisol in the body, that's going to have a physical impact, especially if it's long term and chronic. And then just overall behavioral problems that could be in school, that could be at home. Some kids do great in school and then they'll have behavioral tears when they get home or it could be vice versa. I would argue a lot of times it depends on where they feel safe to act out. Right. But that's not always the case either. Again.

Matt Darrah (51:01.869)

It depends. It depends. And then we have comorbidity. Yes, which essentially what... Comorbidity means that there's more than one and they tend to be grouped together. So depression is often comorbid with anxiety and vice versa. PTSD and depression and PTSD or anxiety or...

whatever the case may be. Most of the disorders I talked about earlier have comorbidity with other things. so understanding that especially, well, and I put it here, substance use disorder as well, especially with trauma survivors. I have a friend who used to work at a substance use facility and she said she had not met anyone in her years there that did not have a history of trauma.

Again, I'm not going to say A causes B. But I do think when we see substance use, there's some sort of self-medication that's going on and some other issues. And so that's why it's comorbid with so many other things. I would argue that substance use generally does not stand alone. I would say there's probably something else going on as well. And so with PTSD, with all those, like I said, anxiety, depression, you could see

You know, I've seen in kids ADHD. What else? Oppositional defiancy disorder. You know, I know of someone who was diagnosed with bipolar 1 at the age of 12. And we, as a field, generally do not diagnose anyone with bipolar 1 or 2 until they're 18 or older. 12 years old and was heavily medicated for most of their life.

And so I say all of that to say, don't be afraid to seek a second opinion. Absolutely. Especially if you're like, I don't... If you as the parent, if your gut is telling you something, generally your gut's gonna be right. it's... You cancer If somebody tells you something and you want to go get a second opinion because you think it might be something else and mental health is the same. mean, you know, two counselors can approach something

Matt Darrah (53:26.251)

with the same person and get two different outcomes. And so if you see in your child a thing and you go and somebody tells you it's this, but you really aren't sure, get a second opinion. It depends. It depends, yeah. And you get to fire your therapist whenever you want, if you want or need to. It really is...

man, finding a therapist is like finding a good pair of jeans. Sometimes it takes a while to try them on and to see what personalities fit with you or your child. And what works for your child might not work for another child and being okay with having multiple and just being understanding of that. It's not like going to primary care physician where a cold is a cold, right? And it's going to be treated the same generally.

So you've got down here, trauma disorders in children often do not present as classic PTSD. How do you think it presents differently?

I see ADHD a lot, if I'm being honest. In fact, years ago, they tried to get ADHD renamed to executive functioning disorder, which I think is a more appropriate name because it hints at the executive functioning happens in the frontal lobe. So it's that front part of our brain. Logic. Yes, for men.

Sadly, 26 30 for 30. Yeah, I changed it. It's about 25 for women. So when women date older, just know there's a reason for it. We're hoping their brains are a little caught up. But executive functioning disorder is what they tried to rename ADHD to. And it's because those kids have a hard time doing any type of executive functioning. And I see that a lot in kids who have a history of trauma.

Matt Darrah (55:30.446)

I don't know all of the neurobiology behind it. This is just what I see and even research shows that as well. know, again, if you in Dr. Perry's book, The Boy Who Was Raised as a Dog, he talks about a myriad of clients that he treated and worked on their trauma history with that came in with a whole bunch of other diagnoses, ADHD, autism, depression in kids.

And, you know, being really reserved, there's introversion and then there is self isolation. Like intentionally pulling back. That was not necessarily normal for a kid. Right. Generally, kids are pretty social for the most part, even if they're introverts, they'll have their little group or whatever. But, it really does not present when people think PTSD Most people think veterans.

and flashbacks, night terrors, things like that, which can happen. Kids can have bad dreams. generally, we tend to see it behaviorally. They have behavioral issues. Their grades start slipping. Complaints, other complaints at school, or suddenly their behaviors changed. In fact, for those in the area, or even not, if you go to the Bridges website here in Amarillo,

they have material that specifically outlines a number of things to look out for in your kids. Now, granted, it's going to be specific to abuse, especially sexual abuse, but a lot of those translate over and you can just see it in those who've experienced trauma, even if it's, you know, natural disaster potentially. Okay. So this next segment is, I'm kind of excited to talk about

because we're talking about the power and pitfalls of labels. You know, the title of our podcast is Diagnoses, Labels, and Living Beyond Them. And...

Matt Darrah (57:47.073)

I've realized there is a power to it and there's a pitfall to it. your first point here, accepting the diagnosis without letting it define you. And I'll tell you, I started seeing a counselor and because I was trying to work, I wanted to work through some stuff in my childhood, but then the counselor started kind of talking about my experiences in Iraq. so I got this...

diagnosis of complex PTSD and it messed me up. Like I couldn't really wrap my mind around why, but it just did. It was really hard, a pill for me to swallow. And she kept saying that it's just something that helps us to understand where you're at. And I don't know, it really messed me up. And so I really, I want to...

Accept the diagnosis without letting it define you. That to me is really important. Yeah, it goes back to what I said kind of early on in the episode of it's just information about you. You know, I was talking to a friend about a recent diagnosis that she received and I was messaging her and I said, you know what? I think one, everybody's got their issues at some point in time in their life, right?

Everybody experiences loss, grief. In fact, under the trauma and stress related disorders, don't have it listed, but prolonged grief disorder is now in the DSM. So recognizing that grief isn't just over in two weeks. But she and I were talking and I was like, you know, but you're the same person walking out of that room after you receive that diagnosis than you were when you walked in.

Like that doesn't change. And I've met a lot of people who have a diagnosis and it's really become a huge part of their identity. And they're like, man, I can't go do this because of X, Y, and Z. I'll be honest, especially in this area because of the work I do, I get really anxious when I'm out in public because I know so many offenders. And I'm even sometimes worried about running into clients, especially if I'm

Matt Darrah (01:00:10.701)

You know, it's Sunday. I'm in pajamas. I got to run to the grocery store real quick. And I'm just I got a hat on hoping no one recognizes me. You know, it's 100 degrees. I'm still going to cover it. My tattoos kind of thing. But a lot of people will get hit with a diagnosis and feel like that completely changes their reality. Yeah. And in all actuality, it doesn't. Right. Who you who you're leaving that therapy session as is the same person you walked in as.

with one exception is that you have more information about yourself and how to take care of yourself. So why do you think it hit so hard to get the diagnosis? Because we, at least culturally, live on labels. Like, the biggest, coolest job, right? The label of being CEO or the label of valedictorian.

having the highest GPA or all of these awards. think about, you know, even what we do up here in Amarillo, the Amarillo Choice Awards, those are labels. And we naturally do that just as humans. categorize things. And so labels are very much just naturally part of our nature. it's some people, think, get hit harder with it because they

And this is just anecdotal experience. So I'm not coming at this with research, but what I've seen is they didn't see themselves as that way. And to be told that they're that way kind of shatters their self-esteem and their self-identity. And so it's like everything shattered and it feels like they have to build back up from the ground up. And I'm speaking from a place of...

a lot of the sexual assault survivors I've worked with. That is objectively one of the most traumatic types of trauma. research will back that up. And I know a lot of the survivors who I've seen both ends of the spectrum who are like, I'm not going to let this define me. Again, this is something that happened to me. This is not all of who I am. And then you've got the other ones who are like,

Matt Darrah (01:02:37.685)

I don't know if I'm going to be able to leave the house. don't. I've had ones where it's like, I can't talk to this cop simply because he's a man. And that's where I come in and I'm like, OK, that's totally fine. I'll get you a female officer type thing. And that's my job to come in and advocate for them. But I just naturally we gravitate towards labels and we want to know who someone is. And labels help with that.

So it just, again, it depends. So you think, so how do we shift that to where, I mean, is it self-talk? Is it just working through? How do we shift that? You get the diagnosis and then maybe it rocks your world a little bit, but then you move on. You know what I'm saying? How do we...

overcome that thought that, my God, something's really wrong with me. I think it starts with because you're not getting a diagnosis unless you're seeing a medical or mental health professional, period. Right. So you shouldn't be diagnosing yourself. You should be asking your therapist friends to diagnose you. In fact, in my master's degree, my advisor was really good about teaching us about kind how to turn off that analytical part of our brain when we're with friends and family instead of sitting there, you know.

analyzing, creating a file on them like, oh my God, that's a symptom, let me write it down and put it in my little mental file. And so I would say it starts with a conversation with your provider. Tell them upfront and be honest of like, I'm not doing well with being given this diagnosis because ultimately they're going to know you better than I can on a podcast than you.

probably anybody else, to help them navigate that situation. And then I also know a lot of people who start going to therapy for the purpose of simply processing and talking through maybe their past childhood, their traumas, current stressors going on. If you're someone who's prone to taking on a label and making it your identity, don't ask for your diagnosis.

Matt Darrah (01:05:03.371)

Because there's really no other, unless you seek it out from the therapist, and if that's concern you have, I would say you could also tell your therapist, like don't tell me. Now there are going to be times where that's required. There are a number of mental health diagnoses that generally need medication to treat them, that therapy isn't enough. And so generally you're going to need to know what that is.

You can go talk to a psychiatrist and say, is what I have. This is what I need help with. So it goes back to that self-awareness. So are you really stuck on labels? And then. Even if you don't know, you get the diagnosis and it hits you, have an open conversation with your provider about how do I navigate through this and how do I not make this my entire identity? How do I not let this impact me negatively, but instead use it for?

information about how to care best for myself. So you say advocate for yourself, communicate your needs to your providers, your employers, your family, everybody, right? family can be tricky, especially when you receive a diagnosis of some sort of saying, I've got X in your family, depending on the family.

they might stigmatize mental health and they start to treat you different and walk on eggshells. And it's like, I am the same person I was last Tuesday as I am today. Again, the only difference is that I've gotten more information about myself. And so I would say be mindful of who you share that with. That's just boundary setting, keeping yourself safe.

But advocate for yourself too. If you don't agree with a diagnosis, go get a second opinion. Plain and simple. Go try on a new pair of jeans, like get a new therapist type thing. And that leads into also knowing your rights. As of right now, things could change, but mental health diagnoses are covered under the Americans with Disability Act, the ADA.

Matt Darrah (01:07:16.613)

You can ask for reasonable accommodations based on your diagnosis. And the only person who's going to know what your actual diagnosis is, is HR and they're bound by confidentiality. And so don't be afraid to ask for accommodations if needed, right? Like if you have to travel for work and traveling gives you horrible social anxiety, ask for them to have to give you a week notice in advance so that you can properly prepare for that.

And it's just, it's hard to advocate for yourself. It really is. Because the system is not made. We have things in place to help people with disabilities, but the system is really still not set up for individuals with disabilities. And so it's just, man, keep advocating for yourself. And it's a pain in the butt. Yeah, sure. Yeah, definitely. You know, with my service dog, Max, I mean, one of the things that they

kind of told us in the beginning was you and he are covered under the ADA. And so, you know, if you go somewhere that legally you're allowed to go, they can't tell you, you can't bring that dog in here. And they shouldn't be asking you either what his... Yeah, and they do. Why do you have him? Well, then they told us it's just it's a medical alert.

I don't have to talk about it anymore than that. And, you know, by and large, we have gone so many places. There was one business here in town, the Western Bowl. We tried to do some training in there. There was four five of us and tried to go in and they wouldn't let us in. With Hope Lives Here. And I mean, you know, the clerk at the desk didn't know what they were talking about.

wouldn't let us in. But by and large, that was really the one issue where we tried to go somewhere and they wouldn't let us in. But yeah, you've got to know, the ADA is there. It's kind of weird, I don't know if you know this or not, but federal properties are not subject to the ADA. How that makes any sense

Matt Darrah (01:09:44.064)

I do not know. doesn't make sense. mean, yeah. Now, that being said, I've taken Max to the post office, never had a problem, know, taken him to the VA, never had a problem. VA gave you a problem. I think there's a bigger issue at hand there. have been people at the VA who give other vets problems. I've never had one. Yeah. I've never had a problem. And when we first started doing the training and going over the stuff, I mean, they said...

99 % of the time you take him to the VA you're gonna be fine, but you might run into that one person. Yeah, because technically They don't have to have to know that makes no sense. No, I yeah, I I don't understand that either I do know that you know DEI and ADA go hand-in-hand so as of right now I do want to give a disclaimer that that those things could shift in the coming years and so for anyone listening

I would just encourage you to stay on top of any news related to it. Because you can only advocate for yourself based on what you know. So if something changes with the ADA, with that act, and you don't know about it, you can't properly advocate for yourself. So you gotta stay informed. Yeah, gotta stay informed. Treatment and recovery paths. Yeah, again, I'm real big on evidence-based therapies or evidence-based protocols. But with that being said,

Trauma is not a one size fits all. And like I've said multiple times, it depends. That is the answer to every question within this field. How to treat trauma? What is trauma? Well, you know, it really depends. Personally, you know, my master's degree, was CBT trained more or less. And so my mentor then was huge on CBT.

Obviously my undergrad advisor was Neurosequential Model of Therapeutics and I have moved into really loving solution focused therapy for clients. Personally, because I know my failings and my faults and I grew up in a military family that didn't like emotions, I made the...

Matt Darrah (01:12:04.243)

outrageous decision to choose a therapist who specializes in emotional and relational focused therapy. And every time I'm like, the audacity of this woman, what am I doing? Why am I here and why am I paying you? And then after session, I'm like, that's nice, because I that help. With that being said, there's a list of them out there. So just like you try on a therapist to see if it's a good fit, you're going to do the same with with therapies. In fact,

I'd encourage anyone if they're seeking help from the therapist, be it a psychologist or a counselor, that they ask them what their theoretical framework is from which they work. Because they'll tell you, oh, I'm EMDR, I'm CBT, I'm trauma-focused CBT, I'm CPT. They're going to throw a bunch of acronyms out as what they're going to do. I'm relation-centered. I'm not a huge fan of...

Freudian anything for multiple reasons, but those therapists still exist and some people still really love the psychoanalytic approach to therapy. So do your research and sometimes it's a matter of going to therapy and I hate CBT personally because they give me homework. I have enough stuff to do outside of that hour. No, that's not going to work for me. Yeah.

So when it comes to treatment and recovery paths, evidence-based therapies, highly recommend those, you know, seeking help from a licensed professional. is somatic therapy, somatic just has to do with really that connection to your body. Again, the mind and the body are connected, they are not disconnected, right? One impacts the other, which is where things like mindfulness really come into play.

Here in Amarillo, we have support groups as well. So you have that camaraderie and community that can be really beneficial. And that varies. I know we've got groups for domestic violence survivors, sexual assault survivors. I'm sure there's a ton of other groups that I'm completely unaware of. I for sure there's one that I'll give them a shout out on here. Greater Amarillo Foster Parent Association is a group that's

Matt Darrah (01:14:21.815)

foster parents, adoptive parents, kinship families, and stuff like that because, and I've said this a thousand times on this podcast so far, we do better in community. We do better in community. So my statement is walking with families, working with churches, waking up the community to better serve the kiddos and foster care. But walking with those, like we do better in community. And so...

You know, if you're struggling with a diagnosis of PTSD or this or that, there's most probably some group out there for you to get involved in. That or Facebook groups. I'm actually, so I suffer with migraines. I have since I was in high school and I joined a Facebook migraine group because it's

it's also really isolating to be struggling with, be it physical or mental health. And when you find a group of people struggling with the same thing, it can be really freeing. And then there's also the aspect of, hey, have you heard about this? Exactly. And that resource sharing. Yes. And there were some things that even as someone who has access to all the newest research, because I'm a student as well,

I can look up anything related to migraines, like I have access to PubMed and whatnot. There were things migraine related that I didn't know. And I worked under a neurologist who specialized in head injuries and headaches. wow. Yeah. so groups like that can be really beneficial, and I highly recommend them. And then also lifestyle integration. So that talks about really self-care boundaries, knowing and understanding your triggers.

I'm not going to say you should avoid all your triggers. think desensitization is a really beneficial thing in therapy. It's essentially exposure therapy. With that being said, you will never catch me doing exposure therapy with spiders, which I am irrationally afraid of. I'm going to 3D print one to put here next I will walk out. I will walk out. I will scream like a little girl at the top of my lungs, which very few people have ever seen.

Matt Darrah (01:16:44.105)

And I will run. Yeah. Yeah. I hate spiders so much. exposure therapy is talking about your triggers and even slowly being around some of them. I'm not saying to go stand next to your offender. Yeah. Right. But if. Let's say if parks trigger you for some reason, right, if you were assaulted at a park.

you could slowly work up to actually going to one, right? Maybe look at a picture first. So those triggers, desensitizing yourself to them can be really beneficial for individuals. then, God, boundary setting. I could talk for hours just on setting boundaries and holding them. And not just holding them, but when somebody crosses them, there should be consequences. I'm not saying you've got to physically punish them or whatever.

But I've had some people I've had to hold some strong boundaries with. And sometimes it looks like I'm going to take a break from this relationship because you crossed a boundary after I asked you not to. And so them having consequences and realizing they don't just get to blow past a boundary with me and it'd be fine. And nothing happened. And boundaries are just really, really important, especially for those who are trying to process through.

trauma and even in the foster care setting, you've kind of set boundaries with those kiddos. Kids might seem to really hate discipline and boundaries, but the kids who have those things do better. Yeah. Plain and simple. So yeah, for sure. So let's talk about person first strength based language. What do you mean by that? Well, we talked a little bit about it last episode.

So hopefully everybody listening to this is caught up. it's really instead of saying a PTSD sufferer, which puts the diagnosis first and it centers on that, you would say a person with PTSD, a person with autism. So it's acknowledging that they're a person first. So it's helping to change the dialogue because language does matter. Right. In my field, we've moved away from saying committed suicide or

Matt Darrah (01:19:03.597)

a successful attempt, which means that they died by suicide, which is actually the term that we use now is died by suicide because the word success has a positive connotation. Why are we that with the word suicide? Like it should we say died by suicide for a reason. Yeah. Because if we say committed like you can't commit cancer, you died from cancer and and suicide.

generally results from mental health disorders. And so you're not committing depression or anxiety. So anyway, it's changing that language to put the person first. And then it also helps to focus on resilience and growth. In fact, there's something called post-traumatic growth that I don't go into, but y'all can Google it and pull up what it is. It's exactly what it sounds like. It's growth, post-trauma, what that could look like.

And it just helps with, again, changing that language. And I've talked about it because I'll say sexual assault survivors. Most people will say sexual assault victim. Those words carry different connotations. And so changing the verbiage actually passively communicates to the other person something different when I say survivor versus victim.

And research has shown that. Right. So survivor empowers them of like, yeah, I did survive that. I can be resilient. I can grow after this versus victim of like, man, this happened to me. There's nothing I can do about it. Whatever the case. And everybody I will always default to person centered unless a client asks. So I'll always say survivor unless they and I've only ever had one client say,

prefer to be called a victim. I don't feel like I've survived this right now. And so I always go with the person centered first and the positive. that strength base survivor is more strength based versus victim, but always also respecting the client in front of me or my nephew. You I used to call him short stack because he was shorter than me. That and small fry.

Matt Darrah (01:21:27.787)

Right. And there came a day where he was like ZZ, which is what he calls me. I don't like being called short stack. And I was like, OK, bud, that's totally OK. Is there something else you prefer I call you? And he's like, no, I just don't really like short stack or small fry. And I was like, totally OK. And at this point, he had grown quite a bit, too. So and he is the biggest kid in his class. He's he towers over all of them. So those wouldn't even be applicable to him anymore.

But changing that narrative and then with language, going from a disorder to adaptation. So adapting to the situation and using whatever diagnosis you've been given to maybe adapt your environment and again, taking that information and learning more about yourself so that you can best care for yourself. And that moves into that post-traumatic growth as well.

That's awesome. Okay, so let's recap and we'll get out of here for the day. Trauma diagnosis, not the end of the world and does not define you. And if it's something you're struggling with, then you need to, you gotta work through that. You gotta figure out, I am not the diagnosis. I am a person with that. I was, I have...

Anxiety, I am anxious about this not I have anxiety or I am anxious. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, don't make it your identity. Yeah, it's not who you are. can we keep talking about it the last episode. You can. He. What do we call it? We can reverse the effects of trauma. We can make it through it. And so so.

if you have a diagnosis or if you have a child who has a diagnosis, they're still a person. All we're doing is helping identify maybe what they're struggling with. Yeah. And then also being able to focus on their strengths. Right? Maybe you've got a kid who's got ADHD and they struggle in one area of their life and excel in the other. Instead of focusing so much on their failings and their weaknesses, focus on their strengths.

Matt Darrah (01:23:50.296)

build them up in that way. Accentuate the positive. That made me feel really old. Alright guys, stop and think. Listen to your body, listen to your experiences and normalize. It's okay to get help. It's okay to get help. Whether it's for you, for one of your kids, for your spouse.

We can move past these things. can... What did you call it? I keep going back to it. We can live beyond the diagnosis that we have. There is hope over and over and over again. We're going to say that there is hope. so, definitely get help if you need it. If you're dealing with vicarious trauma, get help. Right? You're not helping anybody by just...

dealing with it. We're suppressing it and yeah, just trying to ignore it. Yeah. That's a ticking time bomb. Absolutely is. So Hannah, thanks again so much for coming today and sharing with this. I feel like I'm just absorbing and learning so much. I feel like I could go through and I'm to have to edit these episodes and I feel like I'm going to learn again and more because I just eat this stuff up. mean, it's so important to me.

to who I am, to the dad that I want to be, the husband I want to be, the grandpa that I want to be, and all the things. so, thanks so much for coming on. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. Two more episodes. episodes. And we'll wrap this season up, or this series. guys, like, share, subscribe. It helps us. It's going to help other folks that don't know that we're even out there. We're here to...

to connect families with resources that are out there, to build resilience in parenting and in our relationships and stuff like that. And so if people don't know that we're here, they're not gonna get the message. And so please like, share, and subscribe to All Things Foster. We're here, primarily our main thing is placement packages. And so a placement package,

Matt Darrah (01:26:15.693)

is customized to the needs of each kiddo, and so every kiddo gets a suitcase, a blanket, a teddy bear, a book, a Bible, and a toy. Every kiddo. And so, on top of that, they get whatever they need. So it could be clothes, it could be diapers, it could be a car seat, it could be so many other things. Basically, if a kiddo needs it, at some point we've done it. And so, there's about 600 kids that come into care in a given year in the 26 counties.

So we're at 60 for the year and we just hit the first part of June. So we've got a long ways to go to where every kid will get the placement package. And that's the end goal. My goal this year is 125. Ultimately, we want every kid that comes into care in the Panhandle to get a placement package. And we need the help of the community in order to be able to do that. So if you wanted to be a placement package partner,

That sets up a monthly donation to us, a hundred bucks, buys us all the clothes we need in a placement package. 50 bucks buys us a case of diapers. $10 buys us one outfit a month. And so in order to get to where we need to go, where every kiddo gets a placement package, it takes everybody, it takes the community. So please, please consider becoming a placement package partner. You can do that at PanhandleOrphan.org.

and please consider doing that. Again, meet with Sundy Sharp from AMC Mortgage. Thank you so much for your sponsorship of this episode. If you need a mortgage, if you need to refinance all the different things, she's based right here in Amarillo. She's been in the mortgage industry for a long time. She knows what she's doing. So if you need help with your mortgage or if you're interested in buying a house, hit her up. Again, her phone number is 806-

683-0313 or you can check out her website www.buywithsundy.com. Thanks and have a great day.