Creating a Culture of Care: Foster Care, Adoption, and the Church with Jason Johnson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iveFlzh8QdU

Matt Darrah (00:01)

Hello and welcome to All Things Foster, a place for coffee, connection, and community. I've got an exciting guest on today, Jason Johnson. We'll get to Jason just here in a minute. But this episode of All Things Foster is brought to you by Power Within Chiropractic in Amarillo, where your body's natural healing and wellness are the priority. Led by Dr. Robin Ure, who brings over 20 years of experience helping families feel better and live healthier.

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Jason Johnson (01:47)

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Matt Darrah (01:49)

Thanks. so let's let's kind of kind of dig in a little bit. What are you what are you doing right now?

Jason Johnson (01:56)

Well, I...

I get to ⁓ work with a fantastic organization called CAFO. Most people know it as CAFO, Christian Alliance for Orphans, where among other things, our organization serves organizations all around the country and even serving in a global context by supporting, ⁓ providing resourcing, coaching, consulting, and probably the highest value is just an alliance of organizations and leaders coming together.

Matt Darrah (02:09)

Mm-hmm.

Jason Johnson (02:27)

all under the belief that

for the most part, we can do so much better together than we ever could on our own. It doesn't mean that we all always have to do everything together, right? Nobody likes one long perpetual group project. Sometimes it's best to do the thing you're best at, but we don't do that in a vacuum. We do the thing we're best at and what God's called us to do in the context of a broader community where we're sharing ideas, resources, encouragement, caring for each other.

get to specifically focus on how we do that with church leaders, with churches around the country. And I get to interact quite a bit with a lot of churches asking really great questions about how do we serve well in this space? What does this look like? How do we care well for families in our church, outside of our church? And then I get to work with lot of organizational leaders who are working with churches, nonprofits who are saying we want to partner well with churches in our community.

Matt Darrah (03:24)

Hmm.

Jason Johnson (03:30)

in our region, around the country, in order to do what we do well, we're dependent upon the role of the local church. How do we do that? How do we engage them well? How do we form those relationships well? So I get to spend a lot of time there also.

Matt Darrah (03:47)

Yeah, yeah, I love it. And we joined CAFO last year ⁓ and just the amount of resources that you guys bring to the table ⁓ for those of us that are doing work, ⁓ trying to raise awareness and increase support for foster and adoptive families. so, you know, I've sat in on a ton of trainings. We're going to go to the conference later this year. so CAFO has just been a great, great

Jason Johnson (03:52)

Awesome.

Awesome. Awesome.

Matt Darrah (04:16)

resource for our organization as well. ⁓ Jason, we go back kind of to the start? How did you get into this work around foster care and adoption?

Jason Johnson (04:31)

Yeah, so like a lot of families, ⁓ a lot of couples, I think my wife and I were one of those early in our marriage.

quote unquote one day couples, meaning one day we feel like God might have us adopt or do something. I don't necessarily recall conversations at that stage around foster care. I don't even recall being aware necessarily of this thing called foster care. Certainly not to the extent that I am now, but that was always.

something, it was one of those things. And I think a lot of people in our churches and in our communities are carrying this kind of secret private.

one day wondering, you know? And ⁓ that just kind of kept with us. We started to have kiddos. I was involved in ministry. We got involved in church planting. And it was there actually in our young church plants in Houston that ⁓ we actually had a staff member early on. Her and her husband became foster parents. And that...

sparked something in our church. On one hand, I would say it sparked something. On the other hand, I would say it actually revealed something that was already there, this culture of what it means for us to live out the gospel, serve our city well. And now we've been confronted with this reality that this whole thing called foster care and vulnerable families exists. And it really frankly became

a matter of now that we know what we know, we can't pretend like we don't know it. And that quickly became the place where my wife and I, our girls at the time, were five, three, and one when we actually started our licensing training. And it just became clear, we can't pretend like we don't know this anymore. so this is going to be the path that we take. And so we became foster parents a few years into our young church plant.

Matt Darrah (06:12)

Right.

Yeah, and you know, there's a lot of folks within the foster care community that have this idea that the church doesn't care about foster care and adoption. And it's been my experience that they don't know. They don't know the statistics and the numbers and all the things about it. And so when we go and share about the need,

people respond. mean, you know, that's just been my experience. No, not everybody that I talk to is going to go get licensed, but a lot of people are going to respond in some way, whether it's hosting a drive and bringing us stuff for our placement packages or setting up a monthly donation or offering to do a date night, all the things, right? They don't know. ⁓ And once we're confronted with it, the Holy Spirit kind of comes in and says, hey,

This is something that's desperately needed.

Jason Johnson (07:34)

For sure. And to that point, a lot of times all that it really takes is someone that would be willing to come alongside the right people in the church, church leaders that were the most passionate advocates in the church and walk with them and help them see some things that they just haven't seen before. a lot of times what I find is that we're...

We think we're in the business of trying to create something in people that does not yet exist when actually what I find is where the greatest impact is and the greatest responses is to to show people to bring people closer to something that actually ends up revealing.

something within them that does exist. A desire to make an impact, a desire to give their lives over to something greater, a lack of clarity on what that looks like, or more specifically, maybe even one of those one day stories of a desire to, yeah, one day we feel called to foster or adopt, but we just don't know how, we don't know when, we don't know what. But now that somebody has brought a little clarity,

We didn't create that desire in them. We just gave a little clarity that revealed and gave them some legs to stand on and start to move forward and a little bit of confidence to do that.

Matt Darrah (08:54)

All

Yeah,

I like that. I do see ⁓ that kind of distinction between, you know, like what happened with you. It was something that you guys thought you might do, but once somebody in your circle did it, then, yeah, it did. It revealed that. I like that, just that thought process that we're not creating something, but we're revealing something that God's already been

putting on their hearts.

Jason Johnson (09:35)

That's right. That's

right. And I think for a long, time, the, the M.O. in the foster care world has been, there's, there's a significant gap between what the need is and how many people are responding. And so the solution to that gap is to just do whatever we can to recruit more people to get involved in that recruitment posture very much can feel like we're trying to create or elicit something.

where we tend to focus is this is less about recruitment and it's more about formation. It's more about discipleship, especially in the church context. It's less about let's just convince people to do something. And it's more about let's form.

the kinds of people who do these kinds of things and then lay out in front of them these different pathways that provide clarity and confidence to do what it is that they are becoming, if that makes sense. And that's a longer, that's a long road. That takes time. But the dichotomy we have is recruitment can sometimes feel faster.

Matt Darrah (10:27)

Mm.

you

Jason Johnson (10:51)

But in the long run, what we find is that it's significantly unsustainable. I think what recruitment culture has gotten us is more families faster, but they don't stay longer. What we want is the right families longer.

Matt Darrah (10:57)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Jason Johnson (11:09)

And that might not be faster on the front end, but it's longer on the back end, more sustainable, more, more supported, cared for, coming in with the right framework, the right expectations, the right resources. ⁓ And, and ultimately, I think that's what kids and families that we're serving need is people who are going to stick and who are there for the long haul. Yeah.

Matt Darrah (11:23)

Mm-hmm.

Well, yeah, for sure. I'm working with a business coach right now and we were going through some statistics for Region 1 and it's like the average number of placements per year is like 1.2, meaning that the chances are they're going to have more than one placement in each year. that's a disservice to the kiddo when they...

They land here and then, you know, it's more difficult than what they thought, so they kind of back out and the kiddo goes somewhere else and then they just kind of start bouncing. Whereas, you yeah, if you approach it with this idea of the discipleship and bringing them along and supporting them in that journey, you you do, you're going to end up with more stable families. ⁓

that aren't just jumping in both feet and then getting out because they didn't know it was gonna be this hard.

Jason Johnson (12:42)

That's right.

Yeah. Frankly, one of the most sustainable recruitment strategies is actually to retain families really well, because then it minimizes the number of people we need that need to be recruited. But it also demonstrates and it shows potential new foster parents. Okay.

So if we do this, this is what it looks like to be cared for and supported by a broader community. That makes it feel more doable. And when they see families being supported and connected and encouraged, okay, that doesn't take away all of our questions. It doesn't remove all of our fears, but at least it gives us a little more confidence.

Matt Darrah (13:13)

Absolutely.

Jason Johnson (13:28)

that it's doable. And so there's a lot to be said for. I tend to think of this in two different buckets. It's a complex thing, but if we simplified it, the two buckets are what are we doing on the front end to engage more people into this space? And then what are we doing on the back end to support them through it?

Matt Darrah (13:48)

Exactly.

Jason Johnson (13:48)

and to celebrate

them through it. And that doesn't always just mean, what are we doing on the front end to get more foster parents? And then what are we doing on the back end to support them? Obviously it does mean that, but it can also mean, what are we doing on the front end to engage the person who will never open their home to a child, but has significant gifts to offer into this space?

And then what are we doing on the back end to celebrate what God is doing through them and to remind them that the contribution they're making in the way they're serving is significant and it's part of a much bigger thing. So I tend to, as we're working with churches, really say, yeah, it can be overwhelming if you try to think about the whole, but let's not think about the whole. Let's just think about these two. Let's do these two things really, really well.

Matt Darrah (14:18)

Mm-mm.

you

Jason Johnson (14:41)

What are we doing on the front end? What are we doing on the back end?

Matt Darrah (14:44)

Yeah, I actually read y'all's the the email. I think it came out yesterday that was talking about ⁓ kind of pruning and doing doing less, but doing it better ⁓ and really kind of focusing a lot of the Holy Spirit to to kind of guide and cut off the things that we're just doing that are just spinning our wheels that we're not accomplishing anything and do the do fewer things better.

than doing a whole bunch of things not very well.

Jason Johnson (15:18)

That's right. Yeah, yeah. We're excited the theme this year for the conference, also for our team as a whole. The conference theme is also the theme that kind of percolates within everything that we do as a team throughout the year. And this year it's less. ⁓ We are not at a loss for accumulating more, being distracted by more, consuming more, thinking up more to do. And our default

way of thinking, and this isn't necessarily wrong, it's just insufficient if this is the only way we think. Being the way to progress forward always means adding more and doing more. Well, actually sometimes the way to really grow is to prune. Yeah. ⁓

⁓ And so it is a counterintuitive thing. It's a hard thing because... ⁓

you know, a lot of, there's a lot of organizations and organizations know that donor reports and board reports, like to have, we like to demonstrate quantitative growth, you know, and programmatic growth. And it's sometimes a hard sell to say, actually, board and donors, we are celebrating the fact that this year we did less. And they go.

Matt Darrah (16:29)

Mm-hmm.

Jason Johnson (16:45)

I don't know if that's going to sell very well, you know? But ⁓ I think when you get down to it and you sit face to face with folks and you have these conversations, you you go, yeah, you don't need to sell this to me. told, I feel it in my spirit and in my body and in our organization. And ⁓ that's, that's the tension that we'll rub up against is.

Matt Darrah (17:09)

Mm-hmm.

Jason Johnson (17:10)

quantitatively tends to sell better and look better. But what we're saying is what if we also measured things qualitatively? And sometimes that will require that we're doing less in order to increase the quality of the things we need to be doing.

Matt Darrah (17:29)

Mm-hmm.

So let's go back to your story for a minute. You guys started, you're planning this church, this lady gets certified, you guys get certified, start the process. You said you had three kiddos, biological at that time, So what happens? You got licensed. How long were you licensed for?

Jason Johnson (17:33)

Yeah.

Yeah, we did. Yeah, we had three little girls.

Mm-hmm.

We were, we've fostered on and off and actually our story evolved into my deal initially with God was I'll do whatever you want me to do as long as it's as easy as it can possibly be. So we've kept three little girls alive. We got all the girl stuff. We know how to do girls, baby girls. So just bring us baby girls and.

Matt Darrah (18:16)

You ⁓

Jason Johnson (18:25)

So that was my deal and our very first placement was a little baby girl and she actually ended up never leaving and so she's our daughter now and then we had a few others come and go and then actually our story evolved into opening our home to moms with babies.

Matt Darrah (18:43)

wow.

Jason Johnson (18:43)

Yeah,

and then that actually kind of led to in order, you know, we were invited into a situation that initially started out as foster care with a 17 year old and her baby and then as she grew and aged out, continuing to care for her and support her and have our families integrated didn't really require us.

main still being foster parents, if that makes sense. So that's kind of the short version of a very long, long story. But yeah, when our first placement came in April of 2012, it's, mean, as most people who have done this can, testify, changed everything. You know, there is a, there is a life as we knew it and the world as we knew it before April, 2012 and then all of that.

Matt Darrah (19:07)

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Jason Johnson (19:32)

is over, was over effectively. Because again, once you, not even once you know about it, you can't unknow it, but literally once you hold it in your arms and feel it in your home, I mean, it rocks your world and your world can't ever be the same. So obviously that started to open us up to this entirely new world. ⁓ And the part of Houston we were in was a part of Houston that ⁓ it's where people live.

Matt Darrah (19:43)

you

Jason Johnson (20:01)

so that to the best of their ability they can pretend like ⁓ hard and broken things don't exist. So it's a bit of a bubble. And so this really, this whole thing just kind of bursts that bubble.

Matt Darrah (20:09)

Mm.

Jason Johnson (20:17)

So it changed everything. you know, it changed it. I grew up in the church. My dad's been a pastor my whole life. I was, I did the seminary thing, church plane, all those things. And I would say nothing taught me more about the tangible nature of the gospel than, than fostering. And more so than all of those other experiences combined.

Matt Darrah (20:35)

Mm.

Jason Johnson (20:39)

And so it changes the way that you talk about scripture and preach and lead. And I started to write about our experience. This was back in the day when people had these things called blogs and people actually read. We had attention spans long enough to read an article. That's gone. ⁓ Our attention spans are gone. So I just started a blog about our experience on the church blog and

Matt Darrah (20:52)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jason Johnson (21:05)

related to the gospel and just what we were learning. some of the guys on staff at some point came to me and said, hey man, like every, it's great, but every, every blog on the church website can't be about foster care. And I'm like, why not? Of course they can. But they were right. And so they convinced me to just start a separate side blog and started to write on that. And with zero intention of it ever doing anything, I was just really more processing my own.

Matt Darrah (21:19)

Yeah.

Jason Johnson (21:33)

experiences and that started to become a thing. People started to pick it up and read it and reach out and it felt like maybe at the time, again, I had no idea, then in hindsight, I think what was happening was...

Matt Darrah (21:33)

Mm.

Jason Johnson (21:50)

It was a male perspective in a largely female dominated space. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way, just especially back then it was mom blog world. And then there was foster mom blog world. And now there's this guy talking about it ⁓ and talking about it through a lens of kind of a theological pastoral place.

Matt Darrah (21:57)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jason Johnson (22:20)

less ⁓ emotional or, ⁓ yeah, less emotional place. And again, not being derogatory, was just processing through.

the implications of the gospel and what this means for us in this journey and what we're learning. And that just became a thing. And so I started to get invited to come and speak or share in different places and that turned into a thing. And so a lot of what I still get to do now is travel and speak at different events and just be in the room around the country with different folks in different environments.

which is great. so several years into that, we started to bring moms with babies into our home. There's a whole long story behind that and learned so much from these young moms who grew up with very hard lives. And one of the things I learned the most was that ⁓ the similarities between us are far more than the differences, meaning they are...

Matt Darrah (23:08)

Hmm.

Absolutely.

Jason Johnson (23:20)

They are parents that love their kids. I love my kids. They have dreams and hopes for their kids. So do I. They have dreams and hopes for themselves. So do I. ⁓ The primary difference I found was... ⁓

for so many of these moms, what we discovered is that what we're engaging in in foster care is obviously not an isolated incident. It is a piece to a puzzle that is cyclical in nature. It's generational cycles. And these moms, their stories to some degree or another were always...

Matt Darrah (23:52)

Absolutely, for sure.

Jason Johnson (24:00)

This is how I grew up, it's how my mom grew up, it's how my mom's mom grew up and I desperately don't want my kids to grow up this way. I just don't know what to do. Yeah, how do I get there? And what they do know is how to survive in the world that they've lived in. And ⁓ that actually is, it's so counterintuitive to the way that I would think.

Matt Darrah (24:07)

I get there.

Jason Johnson (24:22)

But it makes perfect sense to them. This is the world I know. It's the world I'm comfortable. It's an uncomfortable world, but I'm comfortable in it because I know how to thrive. I know how to survive in it. And so one example was shortly after a teenage mom moved in with us with her little baby, she told us that she wanted to go find a shelter to stay in for a little while. And we just thought, that's crazy. You have this comfortable house and everything you need.

But it was really telling for us because it was the first time we realized none of this is comfortable for her. It's comfortable for us, but what's comfortable for her is the world that she knows how to navigate and survive in. And ⁓ that really becomes a different, we just came from two very different worlds, but at a human level, we're more similar than we are different. And so we learned a ton from these moms and we still do, we still do.

Matt Darrah (24:56)

you

Yeah, we actually had an experience. There was a young mom that lived down the street from us. We didn't know her. I was driving around and I'm seeing her. She's got two little ones and she's wearing a work uniform and the uniform for the restaurant that she was working for was quite a ways away. And so I'd seen her.

walking around the neighborhood several times. ⁓ one Saturday morning, my kids were asleep, my wife was at the gym, I was just kind of outside, just enjoying the Saturday morning, and she walks past, and she's dressed up for work, and she's got these two little ones. And so I stopped her, and I was like, are you going to walk into work? And she said, yeah. She said, I gotta drop my kids off over here first, and then over there.

Again, my kids were asleep. And so I was like, man, that's just, I mean, I'm just shocked that you're willing to walk several miles to get to work and everything. And so we ended up developing a relationship with her and she was going to get evicted from her ⁓ house that she was in. And so she was she was kind of in this position where she was going to go back to the abusive ex or to a shelter. And and ⁓

And so we were like, we have a spare bedroom. You and the girls are welcome to stay here. We'll help you get on your feet, get things taken care of and stuff. She was in foster care. had moved left her foster home at 16, I think, to come to Amarillo because her sisters were here. And she thought she would kind of have some support there, and they didn't.

And so she's 16, she's in Amarillo, she's got nowhere, she hooks up with this guy, and it's a terrible situation and all these things. Anyways, helped her get on a budget, we helped her pay off all these utility bills that were, she couldn't get in a place, because all of her utilities were, there was no way she was gonna be able to get utilities turned on and things like that, and helped her get a car and all these things. And so you...

Jason Johnson (27:17)

.

Matt Darrah (27:42)

But the thing was there was just this cycle and somebody needed to step in and help her break that cycle. And she did. She went on, she got a dental ⁓ assisting license and now she's doing well. ⁓ But ⁓ yeah, was one of the, the conversation with her was,

Jason Johnson (27:52)

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, that's awesome.

Matt Darrah (28:10)

was awkward because it was like, she didn't know how to accept help. ⁓ To me, it was an obvious choice. Like, here's a room, roof over your head, blah, blah, and not go back to the abusive acts or to the shelter. But for her, was a ⁓ kind of, she didn't want to have to be, she wanted to rely on herself.

She didn't want to have to rely on somebody else. And so it was a kind of a tough conversation and a decision for her. And it took her a few days to make the decision. once she did, she got in. We got her stabilized, her instinct, things like that. But the cycle, somebody had to step in and help break that generational cycle. ⁓

And so I love what you were doing down there with these young moms trying to do the same thing, step in. people, quote unquote, normal people are like, oh my gosh, how is that normal for them? But it's what they grew up in.

Jason Johnson (29:27)

to

what they grew up in. Yeah, yeah, we often talk about this river analogy and there's upstream, midstream, downstream and midstream is largely where the foster care system sits. Something has happened upstream that has required, necessitated a child being removed and now here we are midstream and...

and people need to intervene and we call that space kind of intervention. Something's happened requires intervention. Downstream, people who make it so far downstream grow up in a system and in a cycle that leads to all kinds of other things like trafficking and...

addiction and homelessness and a number of other things that that a lot of churches and ministries and nonprofits have been have been trying to serve and address for generations, frankly, downstream. And we'd say that's they're really providing restore restoration, restorative services, you've made it really far downstream. And then upstream is what we would call prevention. So what's happening upstream that is driving a lot of these downstream issues and where

Matt Darrah (30:09)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jason Johnson (30:35)

Where in our city or our community are our families most susceptible to being vulnerable? And how can we solve for that in order to prevent? ⁓ And so all of these places are important to step into and engage in, and yet also recognizing that that river is not linear. It doesn't just go on forever in perpetuity. the life cycle of a human

Matt Darrah (30:47)

Mm.

Jason Johnson (31:04)

that river is actually cyclical. The further downstream you make it, the more likely you are to end up back stream and now the cycle is repeating itself. One of the things that we help churches, we want churches to really gain a vision for is what we're doing is not just midstream intervention. What we're doing is addressing the whole cycle and

Matt Darrah (31:14)

you

Mm.

Yeah.

Jason Johnson (31:34)

your church is probably already doing some things that you could plot on that stream. It's just disconnected from a bigger vision. It's, ⁓ yeah, we do that thing over there, but we've never really thought about how it's connected to this bigger thing. And we just like to help churches develop a vision for what really what we're doing, regardless of what we're doing right in front of us, the big thing we're all participating in is breaking of cycles. ⁓

And your story is a great example of that. And it even highlights ⁓ some of the upstream solutions to building infrastructures of stability for families. For example, ⁓ reliable transportation. ⁓ Well, OK, I have to have a job.

Matt Darrah (32:16)

Mm.

Jason Johnson (32:30)

and I have to be able to drop my kids off at daycare.

but I don't have reliable transportation. So the likelihood of somebody keeping a job or making doctor's appointments or this appointment or getting their kids a daycare without reliable transportation. So let's solve for that, right? So one of our friends who's long time teaching pastor at our church here years ago, he's always been a car guy and has left cars, but years ago became aware of the fact that in our city, there's not good public transportation. There is for the university students, but not for

Matt Darrah (32:40)

Mm-hmm.

Jason Johnson (33:04)

the general population and he discovered that reliable transportation or the lack of reliable transportation is actually something that perpetuates cycles of poverty. And so he actually started a nonprofit which is now huge and booming and growing into different parts of Texas called OnRamp.

Matt Darrah (33:06)

Mm-hmm.

Jason Johnson (33:25)

And they throw a long series of kind of applications and organizations or groups kind of sponsoring someone and saying, we're with this person, we're behind them, we recommend them, and we're gonna walk with them. They give away free cars. And they have shops in town that donate their services to make sure the car is running and they provide maintenance for a year or two. And the whole objective is,

Matt Darrah (33:40)

Yeah.

Jason Johnson (33:51)

This doesn't solve everything, but if we can at least solve for this thing, reliable transportation for some of the most vulnerable, that helps build these infrastructures of support. I'll never forget, a long time ago, my wife came in and said, hey, good news, bad news. And it's like, whatever, just give it to me. ⁓ Don't even play around with me. Just shoot it to me straight. And she says, good news is we have money to pay for it.

Matt Darrah (33:55)

Mm-hmm.

Jason Johnson (34:16)

I thought, well, great, that's awful lead in. ⁓ Who knows what's about to happen? And granted, we have all girls, for families with all boys, we have money to pay for it. It's probably a lot, whatever's about to happen is a lot more, whatever they broke is a lot worse probably. But she said, bad news is the car won't stop. I was like, okay, great. Hopefully it's just the battery, you know, and deal with all that.

Matt Darrah (34:19)

Yeah

No doubt, yeah.

Jason Johnson (34:41)

So I take the battery up to the shop and they say it's the battery, buy a new battery, bring it home, put it in. In the meantime...

My wife just took another one of our cars to get our girl, our daughter to volleyball, right? Because at that time, I think one of our other girls was driving. Now three of our other girls are driving. So we have a car lot in our driveway. Hey, the car won't start. Okay, just take one of the other ones. You know, it's so that was a minor inconvenience for us. Annoying. Yeah. But thankfully minor inconvenience. Take it. Take one of the other cars. I'll check the battery and an hour later,

Matt Darrah (34:58)

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah, sure.

Jason Johnson (35:18)

For the mom that you met on the street, for some of the ones that have lived in our home, ⁓ going out to their car to get to their hourly job. ⁓

or to get their kids to subsidize daycare or whatever it might be and their car doesn't start, that's not a minor inconvenience. That's a, that is the potentially the beginning of a trickle effect that leads to just disaster. And so what we've learned through this is we are more the same, not in our life experiences, but in our humanity.

Matt Darrah (35:41)

Nah.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Jason Johnson (36:00)

we are

more the same. The primary difference in our life experiences is the infrastructures of support underneath us. So when you and I fall, we don't fall very far, very long or alone, frankly. I mean, there's not a chance that I'll ever be homeless. It's just not gonna happen between family and friends and neighbors or...

moving in to our daughter's apartment who's at college in Austin, like, hey, we're all moving in to your one bedroom, you know? Not a chance because we have multiple layers of support. ⁓ For so many parents that we interact with and moms we've had live with us, the likelihood of homelessness is like an everyday reality. If not, they're just full on in it.

Matt Darrah (36:32)

Yeah

Right.

Right.

Jason Johnson (36:53)

And it's not because there's something wrong with them. It's the different life dynamics are such that when I fall, don't fall far along or alone. Sometimes when you fall, you don't stop falling and it leads to catastrophe.

Matt Darrah (36:57)

Exactly.

Jason Johnson (37:11)

And so what we get to do and kind of a big vision that we help churches really try to wrap their minds around is we're in the business of coming alongside the most vulnerable and doing whatever we have to do to build infrastructures of support underneath them. We don't save, we don't fix, we're not the heroes. ⁓ It's going to be messy along the way, but

We want to empower and elevate and undergird people with infrastructures of support so that they never fall far along or alone again. And I think that applies to the kids that we serve in our homes. It applies to...

the biological parents that these kids come from to the degree that that's possible. It frankly applies to any kind of outreach or mission or justice and mercy ministry that we're doing. We don't strut in to save or fix or be the heroes. We come alongside other human beings with very different life experiences and say as

Matt Darrah (38:04)

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Jason Johnson (38:17)

not on our watch will we ever allow you to fall far along or alone again.

Matt Darrah (38:23)

Yeah.

You know, our mission statement is walk with families, work with churches, wake up the community to better carry out the biblical mandate of ⁓ kiddos and foster care. because we, I say this a lot on here on the podcast, we do better in community, right? That's why it's, you know, all things foster a place for coffee connection in community, because we need that support. We need that community.

And, you know, I'm thinking of, we had a lady on the podcast and she started a home for girls aging out of foster care and they have nowhere to go. And so it's an after care, SIL program, things like that. you know, she is right now she has 16 girls.

in various homes and apartments and things like that. Nine of them have babies. ⁓ And they just don't have any support mechanisms outside of Fostering Independence. When I had her on the podcast, one of her girls that had been through the program came and told her story, ⁓ how she had aged out from this

residential center and had nowhere to go and bounced around, got pregnant, connected with her biological mom in Lubbock, and then they kind of got into it on the road in the car and her biological mom kicked her out of the car. And so she's in Lubbock and she knows nobody and she has no way to do, and she's like seven months pregnant, you know. And so talking through the network of other kids that she had,

ladies that she'd been placed with connected with fostering independence. She came up, they were able to get her up here, get her stable, get her. Now she's a junior board member and she works for the organization and she's blossoming because she had somebody that was willing to step in and provide that support. And so many kids don't. was at a conference a couple days ago and they talked about how

Jason Johnson (40:35)

awesome. I love it.

Matt Darrah (40:43)

⁓ The statistics that they shared was that one out of three ⁓ kiddos that have been in care at any point will experience homelessness by age 26.

And that's just heartbreaking, know, that there's, it is, it is.

Jason Johnson (40:58)

Yeah, it's solvable. Yep,

Matt Darrah (41:03)

So, so let's, let's dig a little bit deeper. I know we've talked kind of overhead on CAFO. ⁓ Your role with CAFO is to, what, connect churches with organizations or teach churches how to, how to better kind of, kind of clarify what your role is there at CAFO.

Jason Johnson (41:25)

Yeah,

really, our hope is to ensure that churches always have access to the resources that they feel like they need to take their next steps and to do it well. And so we create a lot of resources for churches all the way from...

How do we talk about this theologically? How do we preach about it? How do we teach about it to what is an implementation strategy look like? What does step one look like in step two? And how do we move people from anonymous in a church service where maybe we're talking about it to and get connecting in kind of a next steps.

bridge event or informational meeting. So what does strategy look like? Then also what does good partnership look like? Because this is going to require collaboration and integration with others outside of our church. ⁓ What are practical ways that our church can get involved if it's not we have a slew of foster parents or adoptive parents? What are some meaningful things that we can do?

Who do we need to know in the broader community? What organizations exist that are already doing things that are helpful for us that we can plug into so we're not having to reinvent the wheel. And then also even broader than just the foster care or local engagements, we do a lot of work on the global side as well and really helping churches recognize what does wise global engagement look like.

Matt Darrah (42:48)

Yeah.

Yeah, international.

Jason Johnson (43:06)

in terms of how we're spending our money, how we're conducting short-term mission trips, how we're partnering with organizations that serve in a global context. And that's important in and of itself, but it's also important because it ties right back into what we're doing locally or domestically. And so we really want to help churches build a bridge between what we're doing

globally and what we're doing locally and helping them see the common threads. So if you think about, ⁓ one of the terms we use often is cross-cultural. So cross-cultural engagement obviously can apply to...

missions or global context. And we understand that in the missions world, in order to engage cross-culturally, you immerse yourself in the culture. You learn the rhythms and the language and the values of the culture in order to be a part of it, in order to serve it. So we understand cross-cultural and a missions context, but also a lot of what we're doing in a local context is cross-cultural.

as

well. ⁓ Cross-cultural doesn't just mean going across the ocean, it can also mean going across town. ⁓ And that's a significant part of

Matt Darrah (44:26)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, for sure.

Jason Johnson (44:40)

what it means to engage well in the lives of vulnerable children and families. So a lot of the principles of engagement and partnership and posture apply in a global context, in local context. And we find it to be really helpful for church leaders to have the language and the vision and the clarity that they need to be able to communicate to other people. ⁓

As a church, this is what we do. This is what we are involved in. And it's not isolated, random, one off things. They're interconnected strategic things. And so yes, we are.

Matt Darrah (45:14)

Exactly.

Jason Johnson (45:18)

For example, maybe a church says, are deeply committed to serving the homeless and unhoused community in our city, and we've been doing that for years. We are also deeply committed to serving and our partnership with the Crisis Pregnancy Center, and we have mentors and people. We've been doing that for years. We are also deeply committed to raising up foster families in our church. These are three very different things, but they're all part of the same thing. They're all part of the same continuum.

Matt Darrah (45:45)

Mm-hmm.

Jason Johnson (45:48)

of for church leaders we find it's almost like this light bulb and this this sense of relief when when we start to talk about the ability to communicate the interconnectedness of those things because I think deep down and sure and then also doing so in a global context why are we digging clean water wells and outside of Nairobi Kenya ⁓ what does that have to do with anything well

Matt Darrah (46:02)

Mm-hmm.

Jason Johnson (46:15)

Who are we serving? It's not we're digging clean water wells. It's we are providing infrastructures of support and sustainability in communities for kids and families to prevent some of the things from occurring that would occur if they didn't have access to clean water. We go, ⁓ well, that is so much more compelling than.

donate to our missions program so we can dig clean water wells. So just giving church leaders the confidence to communicate the interconnectedness and the broader vision of these things, I find is really exciting for them. And again, it's not something that ⁓ we would say, ⁓ look at what we convinced them of.

Matt Darrah (46:44)

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Jason Johnson (47:06)

it's instead an opportunity to say, this is already within them. This desire to very clearly and with confidence communicate the things that they're doing and why they're doing them. And to the extent that we can just help give the resources and the language and the connections to help them formulate how to do that, it's exciting.

Matt Darrah (47:28)

Yeah. Yeah.

I love the river analogy, but talking through the interconnectedness of just building that support ⁓ for whatever population that you're trying to help and really kind of having this kind of overarching idea of, yes, we're helping people that

don't have a home, but we're doing this over here, we're doing that, but it's all interconnected. It's all, yeah.

Jason Johnson (48:03)

It's all interconnected. it's,

we are a church, an example could be, we are a church that does whatever it takes to break generational cycles. Okay, let's say that's our big overarching mantra. Now the question's already answered. Why are we digging, why are we partnering with an organization that digs clean water wells in East Africa?

Well, because we are a church that does whatever it takes to break generational cycles. Why are we inviting people to step up and become foster parents? Because we are a church. So constantly pointing it back to that bigger vision, I think, is really, really important. And I think it's important at a macro level.

Matt Darrah (48:43)

Hmm.

Jason Johnson (48:46)

to lift people's eyes up and help them see the bigger picture of what we're doing. Also at a micro level for an individual family. Let's say a foster family that's just in the thick of it and they're exhausted and they've run through the gamut of is this worth it? Is it working? Am I making a difference? All of those things, right? And one of the best gifts that we can give them is a little bit of space to ⁓

I don't mean this in a derogatory way, but pull their head out of the sand, right? Because we all can just get so immersed in the thing that's right in front of us to the degree that we fail to lose sight of the big thing before us. And one of the gifts that we can give to people that are in the trenches is a little bit of space to lift their heads up and be reminded, look around. What you're doing right in front of you is important.

Matt Darrah (49:20)

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Jason Johnson (49:45)

but it's not the whole of what you're doing. What you're doing right in front of you is actually participating in this bigger, broader thing that we're all doing together. And I say that's a gift because it reframes perspective and it reminds people that are in the trenches, hey, it feels hard. some days it feels like it's not working. Some days it feels like we've taken 10 steps back, not one step forward.

Matt Darrah (49:47)

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jason Johnson (50:13)

But don't forget that what you're doing is participating in breaking generational cycles or building infrastructures of support underneath people. so yeah, some days are gonna feel like you've taken 10 steps back, but that doesn't mean it's not working. So...

I just find in so many different contexts, whether it's church leaders, organizational leaders, or individuals that are involved in that thing that's right in front of them, giving them language and opportunities to lift their head up, look around, be reminded of the big thing that they're a part of is really, really encouraging and helps sustain them.

Matt Darrah (50:54)

I like it. like it. Well, let's switch gears a little bit. If someone is listening and they've got this, they're kind of like you are, thinking maybe one day I should do this. I'm sure you have this conversation all the time. What do you tell folks that are thinking, maybe one day I should do that?

Jason Johnson (50:57)

Yeah.

Yeah, there's a number of dynamics that are often at play. One of them is telling people there's never a right time to do this. ⁓ You're always going to find a reason for why it's the wrong time. ⁓ All that you need is one or two compelling reasons as to why you are going to do this.

despite the fact that I can come up with a hundred reasons as to why we shouldn't. ⁓ And so that's why I say this is an issue of formation and discipleship. is something that is especially, obviously in the church and the Christian community is rooted in and fueled by and driven by a firm, fundamental, foundational belief that my life is centered around the gospel. And the gospel is not just something I celebrate, it's also something I demonstrate. And...

Matt Darrah (52:08)

Mm.

Jason Johnson (52:10)

So there's never a right time to do it. There's always gonna be a lot of reasons why it's the wrong time. But then also ⁓ another dynamic, very practically, that plays out is what happens if, as a husband and wife, we're not on the same page? ⁓ 90 % of the time, the wife is further ahead than the husband. That's not always the case. But I also don't...

Matt Darrah (52:24)

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Jason Johnson (52:33)

I don't like joke about that or give guys a hard time about that. I think that's totally normal. And I'm gonna overgeneralize here, especially given the unique dynamics and makeup of men and women and husbands and wives, where maybe a wife is, is she,

Matt Darrah (52:49)

Mm-mm.

Jason Johnson (52:58)

her mother instincts and just caretaker and is one that says, gosh, emotionally, I'm tied into this and I'm compelled to this pretty quickly.

Matt Darrah (53:07)

Mm.

Mm.

Jason Johnson (53:08)

It

doesn't remove all doubt or fear or concern, but man, I'm locked in on this, tied to this. Where maybe a man, not that he can't be emotionally tied to it, but maybe the unique dynamic of a husband, especially a husband that maybe has a family and there's bills and there's, do I provide for and protect my kiddos? It's viewed more through the lens of provision and protection.

Matt Darrah (53:12)

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Jason Johnson (53:35)

And so maybe there's more of a guardedness. It's not that I'm against it. It's just, feel like at my core, my job is provide and protect. And this feels like a threat to that. We go, ⁓ yeah, man, like 100%, right? But what if there's a whole nother layer to all of this? And so one of the things we say to couples is,

I'm less concerned right now if you're on the same page. I don't want you to eventually do this without being on the same page, but don't let right now, early on, not being on the same page hang you up. Let's take a step back. Are you at least reading the same book? Do you both care about this? Are you both feeling like, yeah, this is probably gonna be a part of our story one day. I'm not against it.

And a lot of times couples say, yeah, like that's where we're at. Like, we, we, I'm not against this. It's just, we're not on the same page. Like, great, let's celebrate the fact that you're reading the same book. How cool is that? You know, now one of you is on page 200 and the other is still on the table of contents, but at least you're reading the same book. What can we do now?

to start moving towards alignment and landing on the same page. Well, one of you might need to slow down a little bit and be willing to slow down. And the other one of you needs to have the courage to start speeding up a little bit.

Are you willing to do that for each other? Yes. Okay, great. And then eventually you're going to find yourself at this place. And that's how it worked for my wife and I. went to an orientation class. That was my version of, okay, I'll take the next step. And that sped things up for me pretty quickly. I encourage especially couples to celebrate the fact that if recognize, are we reading the same book? Yep. Great. Celebrate that.

Matt Darrah (55:12)

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Yeah.

Jason Johnson (55:31)

Now, what

are you willing to do for each other to start landing on the same page? Also, take an honest assessment of list out all the reasons as to why you think it's the wrong time and why it's not right right now. And then take an honest assessment and determine at what point in the future do you feel like that thing that you listed out, ⁓ that's no longer a factor anymore.

Matt Darrah (55:35)

Mm-hmm.

Jason Johnson (55:57)

It's now the right time because I've eliminated all these things. Well, the age of my kids. okay. At what point are they the right age to do this? Well, they're just so young right now. Okay. So when they're teenagers, you're going to do it and you're going to blow up their world and completely disrupt their teenage years a couple of years before they move out and it's your last year. Well, no, I'm not going to do that. Okay. So at what point is it that they're the right age? They're never the right age, you know?

Matt Darrah (55:59)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Jason Johnson (56:26)

quote unquote the right age. what point, well right now financially, okay. How much money do you have to have for it to be the right time to do it financially, right? And I'm not suggesting ⁓ be careless or be reckless. Just take an honest assessment. Now there's very real factors like hey, our marriage is in a tough spot and we're not good right now, okay.

Matt Darrah (56:35)

Mm-hmm.

Right. Yeah.

Jason Johnson (56:50)

then stop the train on talking about this at all. That's priority, right? But for the most part, the things that become hangups for people, we find ⁓ if we just challenge people to take an honest assessment and then really get to the thing beneath the thing. Well, I'm afraid of the age of my kids. Well, what makes you afraid of that?

Matt Darrah (56:54)

Yep. Yeah.

Jason Johnson (57:18)

Well, I'm not entirely sure. Well, what if it's you were just kind of hardwired to think that the goal is to raise my kids in a bubble, protect them, isolate them, don't let anything hard interfere with them. And now this feels like a threat to that. Yeah, that's actually my real fear. Okay, so it has nothing to do with the age of your kids. It has everything to do with, I thought my job as a parent was to protect them from anything that's hard.

Matt Darrah (57:37)

Mm-hmm.

Jason Johnson (57:45)

And now what I'm being invited to do is to actually open my home up to things that are hard. Yep, that's the real issue. Has nothing to do with the age of your kids. Okay, so helping people kind of take honest assessment and then get to the actual real roots I think is important.

Matt Darrah (57:51)

Yeah.

Right. No. Yeah.

Yeah,

that's a great way to look at it. It's just full of all these metaphors and things. It's some great stuff, man. Just great. So, right. Yeah, we'll close up with this. know, talk to that foster family that's in the thick of it right now that's just worn out.

Jason Johnson (58:07)

Hahaha

Well, we could go for hours, but I don't think anybody wants to listen to a podcast for hours.

Matt Darrah (58:26)

afraid, all this stuff's going on. How do you encourage them? do you do for them? Speak live. How do we help them?

Jason Johnson (58:36)

Yeah,

I'd say lift, get your head out of the sand first. And I know that sounds harsh, but the thing that you're doing right in front of you is of, is important and of eternal consequence, but it is, it's not the whole of the thing. You are participating in this grand, beautiful narrative of, of God's redemptive pursuits of the most broken.

And you are feeling that keenly and deeply in your home and in your family right now. And on one hand, that's exhausting and it's debilitating. On the other hand, what a privilege it is that when we lift our head up and be reminded of the big thing that we're participating in, what a way to spend our life.

A guy I work with, actually Jed, the president of CAFO, says, and I love it, it's simple, but it's profound. says, life with God is the best life. Not the easiest life, not always the most convenient, but man is the best life. And I think it's just important for us to remind ourselves of that. I would say everything inside of you, especially in the hardest seasons, screams at you.

Matt Darrah (59:43)

Hmm.

Jason Johnson (1:00:00)

and tries to convince you that this is your burden and your burden alone. Don't burden anyone else with it. Don't show vulnerability. Don't reach out for help. ⁓ And I would say, don't listen to that lie. You cannot do this disconnected from other people. And they're not always going to fully understand the unique things that you're walking through, but you need people.

Matt Darrah (1:00:06)

Hmm.

Mm.

Jason Johnson (1:00:24)

that you can share with. And sometimes that's close friends, sometimes it's family. And honestly, sometimes it's someone with a lot of letters behind their name and you're sitting on their couch in their office and they're helping you process through things. One of my favorite people, guy named Dr. Kurt Thompson, he's a good friend of the CAFO community, a neuroscientist and a therapist in Virginia. He often talks about how neurologically our brains are hardwired to need each

Matt Darrah (1:00:34)

Yeah.

for sure.

Jason Johnson (1:00:54)

other's brains. I need your brain to help my brain make sense of what I'm sensing and feeling. And in a very human level...

Matt Darrah (1:01:00)

Mm.

Jason Johnson (1:01:03)

Scripture says that we are ears, eyes, hands, feet, toes. We are more interconnected. I need you to help me make sense of who I am in this broader story. So we need each other. We need the brains of other people to help us process and reframe and give us perspective and speak life and support us. And so however you can find that and do that, do it. And it might mean someone might say, well, you don't understand. I lived in,

Matt Darrah (1:01:14)

Mm.

Jason Johnson (1:01:33)

rural country, panhandle Texas or you know, middle of nowhere, the woods of Arkansas. There's nobody around and there's no access to professionals. Find something online that is speaking life into you. ⁓

whatever it takes, you need the brains and the voices of other people to encourage you. so I would say that just be reminded of what the gospel is and says and who you are in that and what you get to participate and be connected with other humans and voices and brains and hearts that are speaking life and truth into you. ⁓ And if you're married, do that with each other. ⁓ And it doesn't solve for everything.

but it at least hopefully gives us the ability to sleep well tonight, wake up tomorrow and do it all over again.

Matt Darrah (1:02:28)

Yeah, because if we we if we if we're so zoned in and focused in on what's happening now and losing sight of the the breaking gen I think if man if we could keep that front of mind breaking generational cycles Yes right here right now there's this thing that we're fighting through but if we keep our keep our eyes on the fact that we're

were called to love and help and serve and hopefully help break that generational cycle. That, if you get lost in the nuts and bolts of just the day to day and kind of lose sight of maybe what you're building, you know, and so, yeah, I like that.

Jason Johnson (1:03:18)

Yeah and I think so and I know

we're running up on time but to that point

Who we are is not defined by what we do. So you may be a foster parent, but that's not who you are. Your wellbeing is not dependent upon how well or not well that is going. ⁓ You are a...

Matt Darrah (1:03:27)

Mm.

Yeah.

Mm.

Jason Johnson (1:03:43)

an individual, you are a man or a woman with a unique identity and gift set and dearly loved by God and you are a child of God and that is your fundamental identity and that is your fundamental security. Those things are not tied up in the roller coaster of how well or not well whatever it is we're doing is going. I actually heard a paraphrase but

someone talking, not a Christian context necessarily, but talking about just identity in the work that we do. And basically says, if our identity is wrapped up in the work that we do, then when the work, if the work that we do goes away, if you lose your job or whatever, then you lose yourself. ⁓ And I think it's incredibly important for foster parents, adoptive parents.

Matt Darrah (1:04:35)

Yeah.

Jason Johnson (1:04:41)

to be reminded that being a foster adoptive parent is not your fundamental identity.

Matt Darrah (1:04:48)

Mm.

Jason Johnson (1:04:49)

It can go really, really poorly. It could go away. It could be going great. But that doesn't define one way or another who you are or how you are.

Matt Darrah (1:05:01)

Yeah.

Jason Johnson (1:05:03)

So I think that's, and if you're married also, are married first. You are a married couple, your marriage is first. Your marriage is not defined by what you do in foster care. ⁓ The best thing you can do for foster care in your home is to set your marriage as priority way over and above foster care in your home. ⁓ So. ⁓

Matt Darrah (1:05:12)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jason Johnson (1:05:32)

Just always being reminded and finding those voices that remind you of what your true identity is and bring you back to that place of this is where my security and my hope lie, not in how these other things are going. Yeah.

Matt Darrah (1:05:43)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

man, so good, Jason. I really appreciate your time. Just the care with which you've walked this road for a long, 12, what is that? 12, 14 years, something like that?

Jason Johnson (1:05:51)

Yeah.

Yeah, our daughter will

be 14 here soon, she was our first placement. So it's been that long,

Matt Darrah (1:06:06)

Yeah. Very cool. Very

cool. So guys, if you're not familiar with CAFO, check them out online. ⁓ We'll put a link down in the show notes with the link for CAFO. I personally have set in on several webinars and just the emails they send out are encouraging. And so if you can go check them out online. Jason, you've got some books. We didn't get to that. I wanted to, but.

⁓ You've got a couple of books out, right?

Jason Johnson (1:06:39)

Yeah,

yeah, we've got one for foster parents, potential foster parents called Re-Framing Foster Care. We have one called Everyone Can Do Something. That's for church leaders, organizational leaders. Yeah, but you can check all those out at the links. And if there's any questions about any of it, just shoot me a message and we'll get back to you.

Matt Darrah (1:06:57)

Yeah, yeah. like I said, we'll put links for Jason's books and stuff like that down in the show notes as well. ⁓ And man, I really appreciate your time. It's been encouraging for me. So I appreciate it. Absolutely. And thank you again, Robin, for your episode sponsorship. Guys, next week we have Amarillo Children's Home on. ⁓ They provide some residential treatment ⁓ placements for

Jason Johnson (1:07:10)

Awesome, yeah. Well, thanks for your time. Great to be here. Okay.

Matt Darrah (1:07:26)

kiddos in care and they've got some really powerful work that they're doing. So make sure to tune in next week. Like, share, and subscribe and have a great day.

Jason Johnson (1:07:33)

Great,

thanks.