Community Education & Protecting Children The Bridge Series (Part 2 of 3)

Hello and welcome to All Things Foster, a place for coffee, connection, and community. Guys, it is great to be back in the studio. Took a took a couple months off of recording, had shoulder surgery, did all the things, and so I'm super excited to come to you from my new podcast studio that we've gotten set up. And so I'm super excited for that. but we've got a couple of really great guests. We're doing a

Three part series on The Bridge which is a child advocacy center. And so a lot of times when there's a decision, there's an issue, then The Bridge gets involved and things like that. So I thought it'd be a valuable conversation to just have folks help understand kind of what they do. And so this is the second episode, and and then we'll have one more episode with counselor who's overseeing a new program there at The Bridge. So

before we get on into all that, this episode is sponsored by ETC Bookkeeping. Janie Thomas believes strong businesses help build strong communities. That's why she's proud to support organizations like ours that serve foster families. If you're looking for an experienced bookkeeping professional or know someone who is, please consider ETC Bookkeeping at https://www.etcjaniethomas.com/

That's https://www.etcjaniethomas.com/ And and so I say this a lot with our podcast sponsors, but Janie is a wonderful, wonderful lady that has really helped me out try to figure out accounting, all the things and stuff like that, because I hate it. So I we've got a couple of ladies that are here in the studio with us. We've got Emily and Valeria

And so we're gonna kind of talk through why community education is important and critical really to to protecting kiddos and and help kind of talk through what's what is an a forensic interview and kind of break that down, things like that. And so so ladies, thank you so much for being willing to come on the podcast, talk about what you guys are doing. Yeah, thank you for having us.

Speaker (02:20.928)

Absolutely. So so Emily, let's let's start with you. What what is your role primarily at The Bridge? So at The Bridge, I'm a forensic interviewer, which means I facilitate interviews with children who are involved in investigations. And as a forensic interviewer, I also do a lot of work facilitating our community education for professionals all across the Texas pain handle. Awesome. And how long have you been at The Bridge? I have been at The Bridge for about a year and a half. Okay. Awesome.

And Valeria what about you? How long what's your what's your role with with The Bridge and how how long you been there? I've actually been at The Bridge for a very short time. it's only been four months. I am the outreach specialist and I help connect our community to our mission through outreach, marketing, and education. I obviously still have a lot to learn, but I'm really excited to be here and be advocating for this mission. Awesome. Yeah, I'm so glad you guys were able to come. So so I'm gonna ask you both this question.

And just or just each answer it. What brought you guys? What was the thought process that brought you to The Bridge? What are this is a tough field to be in. How did how did that happen for y'all? So for me, I have a background in criminal justice. I've worked in legal for a really long time and have kind of worked multiple sides of cases through internships and lots of professional experiences.

when I was in college, I had my first experience touring a children's advocacy center. It was actually down in Dallas. And it was the first time that this CAC, this children's advocacy center model had been introduced to me. And I was just fascinated by it. All of these different groups, these different agencies, like CPS, law enforcement, medical counseling, advocates, all of these different people under one roof to streamline.

How these cases are investigated and handled. So that way an already traumatic experience for children and families, we can kind of minimize the trauma of that investigation and make sure that they're getting the best service. Everyone has the same information and nobody's missing out on on any piece of information. Right. Kind of bringing everybody to the table together. For sure. Yeah. And that literally do that, right? Yeah. Yeah. No, we do that and

Speaker (04:42.57)

It's there's no job like it. It's very hard to explain my job to people. Sure. there's nothing like a CAC job. and you don't really fully understand what that means until you're doing it and and you're in rooms with kids and families walking through something that's really, really difficult. Absolutely. Well, Valeria what what brought you into The Bridge and and the role that you're in?

Yeah, so I was in education for about seven years and then I stepped into a marketing role at a hospital and I was there for about a year and the opportunity at The Bridge opened up and children are some of the most vulnerable members of our community and they deserve to feel safe, heard and protected. so I knew that child abuse prevention starts with education and awareness. so I was like we can equip these children with safety skills.

And help adults recognize the signs of abuse and create opportunities for them to be protected. so being a part of this mission is very meaningful to me. Absolutely. Very cool. So, so Emily, you you answer this first, if you would. People think of going to The Bridge as responding after abuse has occurred, but that's that's not all that The Bridge does, right? Right. So what what kind of you guys have some educational type.

programs that you kinda help with the public being more aware, right? Mm-hmm. So the majority of the services that we provide, it is in response. It's a reactive thing once abuse has occurred, a report's been made, as far as services go. But because we know that education makes an impact on how families respond, how kids respond, and education impacts so much whether or not abuse even gets reported the way that it's supposed to. So

Right now with where we're at, the majority of our community education is geared towards professionals. So people who work with children in the context of camps or daycares, preschools, education type settings who regularly have contact with children. They're the safe people for those kids. oftentimes those are the individuals who receive those initial outcries of abuse where a kid says, Hey, this thing is happening. Yeah. And they're the ones that can ensure that it gets reported.

Speaker (06:58.974)

So making sure that those professionals are equipped and they know what to do when a child says, Hey, this thing has happened to me Yeah. is very, very important. Yeah. Okay, so what what do you as as we finish this conversation, like what do you want people to take away from this as far as this this kind of structure and what you guys do and and what's what do you want people to say that's that's

The thing. That's the important thing. I think that lots of people don't want to talk about child abuse. There's this idea of, well, that happens to other people. It won't happen to my family. It won't happen to my kid. it won't happen to anyone that I know. That happens other places, but not to me. And because of that, I think there's a lot of avoidance and I get it's an uncomfortable thing as someone who navigates it professionally every single day. It's a lot and it's heavy.

they're hard conversations. Nobody wants to think about it happening. Yeah. But we have to be in a place where we're willing to understand and recognize that it does happen. And it can happen to anyone. And we need to all be equipped with the information of what do I do if something like this comes to my attention. And so just not being afraid of this really dark and scary thing because children need for us.

To be brave when they're choosing to be brave also in sharing something that's happening to them. Sure. Yeah. Mm. So, Valeria, why do you think it's important that kids receive the the trainings that you guys a you know, age appropriate, obviously you're not gonna come in there and talk about this when it's they're, you know, seven years old or whatever, but age appropriate education, what what is it?

to you that that makes it so critical that you guys do that.

Speaker (08:57.256)

child abuse prevention begins with education. So the earlier that we can get into those classrooms and start talking about these hard topics with them, it just gives them a greater ability to be able to protect themselves. and even like their peers. Sometimes the outcry is made out by a friend instead of the kiddo themselves. so it's really important to start these educations as early as possible. Yeah.

Yeah, because again, like like you said, Emily, it's not something you want to think about, but you need to be prepared in the event that something's happened. What do I do for sure? Yeah. so I would say that I kind of feel like this like one adult that cares about a child can make a huge impact on that child if there's something going on. Yeah. Absolutely. And in Texas, if I'm not mistaken

Everybody's a mandatory reporter, right? Yes. I mean I know that in some states it's like, well, you only have to report if you're that. But you if you live in Texas, you you're a mandatory reporter. So if something happens, you you have a you have the you have an obligation to to make that known. Right. I think sometimes that people think that only professionals are Texas does kind of identify the difference between a mandatory reporter who's everyone.

But there's professional reporters too. People like teachers, people who work with children professionally may be considered a professional reporter. but as far as who's required to report, that's everyone in the state of Texas. Yeah. Hmm. So you you guys spend a lot of time talking about like recognizing, responding, and reporting child abuse. So what is let's let's kind of start.

Emily, with recognizing. How do how do people like recognize that there's potentially something going on? It's really it can be very different. Every kid is different. and so I'll talk kind of more about the interview process later, but kids two different kids can essentially have the same experience, but how they discuss it and how they describe what's happened to them can be hugely different. Yeah.

Speaker (11:17.448)

And how it impacts them can also be different. And that can be explained by a lot of different reasons. But recognizing different indicators, sometimes kids don't know that something's wrong, which is another reason why I think Valeria's job is so important. Sometimes kids, especially little kids, have just been experiencing something their whole life. They don't know that it's any different. They may think that everyone else, this is something that just happens. Yeah. but like identifying that is hugely important.

But indicators, sometimes kids don't have the words to describe what's happening to them. Sometimes they're too scared. Sometimes they've been threatened. Sometimes they don't want to make anyone upset because kids don't like it when grown-ups get upset and that's very fair. It's uncomfortable for them. And so there's a lot of barriers to disclosure, but paying attention to kids' behaviors and looking for things like in little kids' regression and potty training. They were potty trained and now they're not. Or older kids, if

all of a sudden they were these happy go lucky kids but now they're withdrawn, really depressed. They they don't have the words and you you don't really know if kids are expressing fear. they all of a sudden don't want to be around someone out of nowhere and it doesn't really make a lot of sense those really acute things that kind of happen suddenly. Mm-hmm. but it can also be the opposite. They didn't want to spend time with someone and now all of a sudden that person's their favorite person in the whole world. Because abuse is a complicated thing and how it's carried out is super complicated. For sure.

So knowing those indicators is really important because yes, sometimes kids will just come up to you and say, Hey, I need to talk to you about something that's happening to me. Or I have this question. I need to talk to you. But lots of times, especially with younger kids who don't have the words and don't have any idea that what's happening to them is wrong, it may just be behaviors and and sometimes things like that get reported because it's just enough problematic concerning changes in behavior for these kids. So we need to be looking out for that. So we know.

When to check in on them, say, hey, like tell me about what's going on, not walk up to them and say, is someone abusing you? Because you're acting different. Yeah. But just, hey, I notice that you're acting a little bit different. Like tell me about what, tell me about that. And so being aware of those indicators, not just brushing it off. Yeah, maybe it's just a teenager being a teenager. Maybe it's just a life stage. Maybe something's going on at school and it's completely unrelated to something like abuse. But

Speaker (13:39.341)

being able to pick up on those indicators and recognizing that, especially as someone who may be a safe adult in that kid's life. Sure. Is real important. Yeah. So Valeria you there's, you know, d different like indicators, right? I mean, you know, Emily talked about there's there's, you know, with being withdrawn or those types of things. But are there are there other things that you as as you're out in the community training

Like watch for this. And if you see this then then you need to l look into it farther. Are there other things that that folks should be watching for in that recognized part? in regards to kiddos, yes. So we teach a safety rule and we teach them that if an adult asks them to keep a secret, that's not okay. we tell them that

Not every adult is a trusted adult and it is okay if they're uncomfortable and it's okay to tell an adult no and it's okay to run away if they ever feel the need to. and it's very important to tell an adult if they ever if something ever fails off and if that adult doesn't believe them, it's extremely important for them to keep telling and telling and telling until an adult does believe them. That's something. Yeah. I've heard so many stories of from adults that, you know

that had a traumatic experience growing up and their caregiver just I mean, they just didn't believe you know. And so that's it's super, super important to like you said, keep telling until somebody does something for sure. Wow. Yeah. Are there s some things that that you would think people are like they just dismiss that. Like that no, I don't think there's anything going on that might actually be

Kind of an indicator to recognize. I think a lot of times with that, it's the behaviors of another adult, I think, that would come up. And you notice and you're like, well, that's a little bit odd. But that person would never do anything bad. That surely it's nothing. They, you know, they've been spending a lot of time alone with that kid, but they're just they have really close relationship. This kid trusts that adult. They're just doing mentorship, like, like rationalizing it away.

Speaker (16:02.712)

But there's something to be said for gut feelings. And just because you have a gut feeling doesn't mean that the worst of the worst is happening, but it it could mean that things are moving in that direction. Or it could just mean you don't have a piece of information. But asking questions and paying attention to those gut feelings is really important, especially as you're watching the behaviors of other adults. Yeah. I think with teenagers, them all of a sudden becoming moody. Well, you know, teenagers.

Being real dismissive. And again, sometimes that's just the way it is. Sometimes there's other explanations for behavior changes, but recognizing them and still being willing to ask those questions is important. Because if we just dismiss it, we might miss an opportunity. And maybe that kid isn't ready to talk about it. Maybe they won't say anything even if you ask. Or maybe they're just waiting for somebody to say, I see something's different. Tell me about what's going on. Sure.

Are there different for the for you know, there's all kinds of different abuse, you know, physical, sexual, you know, emotional. Are there are there kind of different markers that show up in behaviors and things like that before each of these? Or is it pretty is it pretty kind of broad that, you know, if they're being withdrawn, if they're doing this or something like that, there's not

You know, obviously if there's bruises, there's that's one that's an obvious way to recognize. But if there's are there others that are like specific to like a kind of specific type of abuse? Do y'all see that? Yeah. So there's a lot of overlap for sure. Things like regression, things like being withdrawn, suicidality, self harming, things like that can all be indicators of any type of abuse. They can also just be indicators of other underlying issues that need to be addressed.

bruising with physical abuse is common, but also a kid could be being physically abused and you don't see any bruises because the people who are giving those bruises are good at picking the places where they leave them. but where you have bruising and the story that the kid or the parent is giving you, it it doesn't match up with that injury. it very clearly looks like a handmark and they're saying, well, I fell off the bed. It's like, okay, well, that doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. Things like that for physical abuse.

Speaker (18:23.514)

wearing inappropriate clothing for the weather. I think that's more typically associated with physical abuse to hide injuries. sometimes kids will cut bangs for themselves to hide something or they'll be wearing a sweatshirt even though it's a hundred degrees outside. for things like sexual abuse, I think looking for advanced sexual knowledge, which is kind of tricky because kids have access to the internet and you know, where there's a

A will there's a way and kids are interested and and want to learn about those things a lot of the time, and they sometimes pick the wrong sources to learn those things from. But when you have small, especially small children and they're talking about really advanced sexual stuff, it's like, okay, you shouldn't know about that. You know, obviously, like Valeria talked about, a lot of what she does is age appropriate. There's an age where kids discover that they have body parts that do different things, and that's really interesting to them, and that's you know, that's normal.

Kids eventually learn about how sex works and things like that. And that can be an age appropriate thing. But when it it seems odd, you're like, okay, that that's odd. You had to have learned that from somewhere specific. That's not something you just discovered about your body on your own. Exactly. and sometimes it's just like exposure to pornography that they found themselves, and other times it's someone showing them something like pornography or things are happening to them. Right. It I mean, it can be a multitude of different things. It doesn't automatically mean that a kid's being touched. Right.

But it does mean there's been some exposure somehow, somewhere. Yeah, so male, some way, yeah. What about neglect? Are there are there things that kind of that people should be watching out for when when there's a concern of neglect? Neglect is tricky. Yeah. because it can look a lot of different ways, like medical neglect, the way we always explain this one in training, it's not

well, your kid has a cold and mom isn't taking you to the doctor. She's like, We're just gonna we're just gonna run this one out. Yeah. That's not what we're talking about. we're talking about, okay, this kid has a dislocated shoulder and they can't function and nobody's taking them to the doctor and it's been days. They're in severe pain, they cannot function, things like that. we've seen sometimes that children need medication, antidepressants, things like that, that help manage their suicidality and

Speaker (20:42.606)

Parents may not believe in that, and so they withhold that medication that's protecting that child's physical well-being, even though it's not something that you would think treats a physical issue. They're they're in danger because they don't have access to that for management of their symptoms. with neglect, in a more general sense, it's it's very interesting because we don't want to criminalize poverty. There's a fundamental difference of a parent who's

doing the best that they can and all they have are these hand-me-down clothes that are just they sort of fit but not really and we haven't had time to go to the laundromat because I have I'm the only parent and I have eight kids I'm just doing the best that I can. And there's fundamental difference between that and maybe parents who are not feeding their children, not bathing their children because they're too busy sitting in the living room doing drugs or spending time

Doing other things and intentionally neglecting your children. Sure. both of those families could need intervention and help with services, but also there there's kind of a fundamental difference there in how those cases are gonna get handled. Yeah, sure. So hygiene is a common one that we see, but also, I mean, you hit a point, like some kids just hit an age where they're like, I'm not gonna shower. And parents have to pick their battles. It's like we don't want to shower today, cool.

You wanna not wear shoes? All right. That's just what we're rolling with today. I'm not picking that battle. And you know, that doesn't mean that a kid's being neglected. Sometimes it just means that they're a kid. Yeah. But with neglect, I think it's more of when you're seeing a lot of boxes being checked of concerning things. And it's affecting how this kid functions. Yeah. That's when it becomes a problem. Right. So let's let's talk let's kind of shift gears a little bit and talk about grooming. I was actually watching a a video on Instagram y last night that was talking about

grooming on like Roblox and things like that. But so how are there some things? Well first of all, let's kind of talk about how how do kids get groomed? I mean, is that something that you guys kinda I mean you're talking about looking out looking for the signs of what are maybe the most common ways that you guys see where a child has been groomed?

Speaker (22:57.784)

Grooming is very, very complicated. I've interviewed kids that have been groomed before. I can see it. there's external like evidence that this grooming is happening and these kids will just not talk about the person that's grooming them or they won't talk about them in a negative way. It's very complicated. grooming is essentially manipulation. It's when an adult builds a trust foundation with the child for the purposes of abusing or neglecting that child in some capacity.

And so it's a very gradual process. It's very intentional. I think with the grooming kind of what I talked about earlier, when you look at someone and you kind of see these behaviors that are odd, but you kind of brush it off. Well, that person would never. The people that groom children are typically very good at it, unfortunately. Secrecy is what it is by nature. And so they're working on making sure that they're relating to this child. They're engaging in things that this child likes to engage in.

Like if this kid loves Roblox, by gosh, I'm gonna love Roblox just as much as that kid. And not in a healthy way. Again, sometimes quote unquote grooming behaviors can be actual normal things, like giving gifts. Just because you give a gift to a child doesn't mean you're grooming that child. It depends on that intent. And again, kind of looking at the totality of circumstances can help indicate that intent. Things like spending one-on-one time, that kid is gonna be that adult's favorite.

And that kid is gonna know that they're a favorite. They get special privileges, they get alone time, they get you know, more physical contact, maybe more hugs. again, nothing wrong with a hug, but there's that desensitization to physical touch that's happening there because of that intent to ultimately abuse the child. but the the good thing about grooming is that it's a great spot for intervention. Sure. Because it hasn't

happened yet, right? You're just preparing to you're preparing the child to do something. Is that right? Is that is that where the line is where like you're once you've crossed over the line from grooming into the actual abuse. Is that am I understanding that right? Typically, yeah. Sometimes there can be other inappropriate things that happen before, but with by what standard we would consider typical

Speaker (25:17.996)

sexual abuse. it is grooming is what happens before and then it continues after to maintain that secrecy so that the abuse can continue to be ongoing. Right. Sometimes there's inappropriate sexual conversations that happen during grooming. pornography exposure, just trying to test the waters and see what this kid is willing to tolerate at what point so they know at what point to facilitate the abuse. But if trusted adults are watching, and again

I don't think anyone needs to beat themselves up if they don't catch it because it's very tricky and secretive by nature. But if you're able to intervene, hopefully you can prevent something worse from happening. Yeah. Which is really cool from a community education perspective because we talk a lot about all these awful things have happened to these kids and like you see it, but this abuse has already happened. And now this kid has to go through this investigation and it's hard and I think sometimes it can be discouraging for adults. Sure.

But with grooming, hey, that's a point of intervention where you can step in and you using your voice can prevent something worse from happening to that kid. Sure. Mm-hmm. Is there but is there kind of what's kind of the most common method for for groomers, or is it just so broad that it's just there's just not I mean I think it kind of depends. generally what's gonna happen is groomers are gonna pick.

the child that they want to groom. it's not this blanket thing to catch all. They're gonna be very selective in who they pick. oftentimes the kids that are at most risk for grooming, maybe kids that are constantly in trouble, they're the ones that lie a lot. They're the ones that aren't believed when they say stuff because they've lied so many times before. So groomers are like, I'm gonna pick that kid because even if this kid says something, nobody's gonna believe them. kids who are suffering from a disability or developmental delay.

That may impact their abys ability to physically resist the abuse, or they may lack the verbal ability to disclose. Sure. looking for kids who are isolated, who are lonely, who just want a friend because that that person who's doing the grooming can step in and fill that void in an unhealthy way. Absolutely. And so they pick their victim, they work on isolating that victim. It's like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna

Speaker (27:44.579)

Build trust with this kid. I'm gonna build trust with the people around this kid. I think groomers consider it bonus points if this kid doesn't have a strong social support network. Like parents, they don't have people looking out for them because that's that's a barrier they don't have to worry about. but then they're gonna pick this kid, they're gonna build trust with this kid, they're gonna work on isolating this kid. How can I manipulate this environment and this situation, this family, into getting this kid alone?

And then the desensitization to physical touch. That can be not even inappropriate touching, but just the high fives, the escalating to hugs, to back rubs, to things like that. And then you get into the actual abuse and then the maintenance behaviors of secret keeping. So that's generally the model. the specifics of what people do to achieve that can kind of vary. Yeah. Just depending on what they're working with. Yeah, and the and the online

Just the internet in general has just made it like a thousand times easier for for these groomers to find their next their next victim, right? I mean it's just so rampant.

Wow. This just stinks. how do you how do you Valeria, how do you how do you teach someone to watch for this, but also not live just in terror of being afraid all the time that something's gonna happen? Yeah, so we wanna focus on building confidence rather than fear. we do talk a lot about like the online gaming platforms that are super popular right now.

We teach kids that just because a man is tall doesn't mean that he can be trusted, can't be trusted. Just because a kid tries to friend them on a gaming platform and they're their the same age and look just like them, it doesn't mean that that's who that really is on the other side. Yeah. So we cover all of those points. but we do our education in a very interactive manner. that makes them feel empowered. we kinda add some humor into it.

Speaker (29:52.643)

So that way they can process it. but we just try to keep that at the forefront so that they're just aware. They're aware of their surroundings. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just such an important conversation. So let's transition from recognizing it and reporting it to what happens when it's disclosed.

What's what's the next thing, the next step once there's been a disclosure? I think in that moment, again, I don't I don't think anyone ever expects a kid to disclose that because we live in this kind of like, well that's doesn't happen to me or anyone around me. just in a self-preservation sort of way of thinking. But managing your reaction in that moment. kids notice how adults react. And so when a kid does disclose to you, being

Very calm. not crying, not freaking out, not making this whole big deal, making them feel like they're in trouble for what's happened, even though that's not what's happening, doing reacting in a way that makes them feel called out or in like they're in trouble is really important. it's not anyone who a child discloses to it's not their job to get all the nitty gritty details. Sure.

Leaving that up to someone like me or law enforcement, CPS is that's a really big deal. for the the whole big picture of a case. Yeah. But knowing how to just say, okay, like tell me more about that. If a kid just hits you with a one liner of my dad's been touching me. Tell me more about that. Yeah. And just working with what they give you. Yeah. thanking them for telling you is a huge deal. Yeah. Like I'm gonna sit here and I'm gonna stay calm because I'm the adult and I'm gonna listen.

I'm not gonna shut you down. I'm just gonna listen to what you have to say. And as soon as you're done talking, I'm gonna say, thank you for telling me about that. I think that's very important, very validating for that kid. now they've shared potentially the biggest thing that they've ever shared with anyone in their entire life. And they said, Okay, I told this one adult and they didn't freak out. Like, this is okay. Yeah, I I feel okay. This is a big deal, but like we're good. I think that with telling adults, it's sometimes well-meaning adults be like, Well,

Speaker (32:18.06)

You can tell me like I'm not gonna tell anyone. And that's false. And you don't want to obviously lie to that child. Yeah. And that's a hard I think that's a really hard spot that a lot of adults find themselves in because again, everyone in Texas is a mandatory reporter. So legally you have to tell someone, otherwise, you know, you can wind up being in trouble with the law too. And so like don't tell this child you can tell me and I'm not gonna tell anyone else.

Because that's that's just not true. Yeah, you have to. not saying you're not gonna have to talk to anyone else. Like don't say that, because they are probably gonna have to come talk to someone like me. which is extra important for making sure they don't have to go into all the details on the front end. you just generally figure out enough, okay, I think that this kid is has been abused or is being abused and then you take that information and make a report. And what do they do? How do they how do they do that?

so making a report Is it calling the police? Is it calling CPS? Is it what what's the typical So it kind of depends. And so there's a couple of things that you want to think about if a kid's made a disclosure to you. is the person that's abusing them someone who has current access to them? Is it dad who lives at home? Is it mom who's coming to pick them up from daycare in an hour? is it an older sibling? Is it, you know, an uncle who lives five states away and he's not gonna see him again until Thanksgiving?

Things like that. We want to take that into consideration. is it a teacher? Is it, you know, just a boyfriend, a girlfriend, something like that. We want to figure out kind of who this abuse is being facilitated by, because that can make a difference. CPS investigates cases where the abuser is a family or household member. And so if that person is related to this kid or lives in the same household as them, or even like mom's boyfriend, dad's boyfriend, someone who's regularly around and has access.

CPS is gonna need to be notified. Yeah. if it's like a boyfriend or something like that of this child, CPS probably isn't gonna be involved again unless they're a household member for some reason. Right. and at that point, law enforcement would need to be notified. And so in some cases, both need to be notified. So there's a hotline number that you can call for DFPS, which is the CPS hotline. You can call that number, you can make a report online.

Speaker (34:44.346)

making a report online does mean that report's gonna get processed slower. Sure. so keeping that in mind, the phone call, I promise you won't sit on hold for that long. I've made reports both ways and both are pretty efficient. They might ask you a lot of questions that you don't have the answers to, but just give them whatever information that you have. Right. And then it'll get assigned to an investigator from there. If there's anything emergent about the situation at all, obviously call call law enforcement as soon as possible.

Both law enforcement and CPS can work on notifying the other agency. If you have time to call both and notify both, that's great. but typically making a report in one place will ensure it gets to the other one as well. you just kinda wanna make sure you know you kind of think through who needs to know about this first. Yeah. Mm. And that would really bait be based on the proximity of the the child that's being abused w with the b potential abuser, right? And so

Right. So if it's like you said it it's easier if it's better if to just call that hotline if it's Uncle Joe and he's five states away, but if it's somebody in the household right now, you you need to get CPS involved and the police. Correct. Right. Right away. Yeah. And then also keeping in mind that Texas law recently changed the reporting time frame down from forty eight hours to twenty four. So

You should obviously be making a report as soon as possible, but legally you are obligated to make the report of suspected abuse or neglect within twenty four hours. And again, I think sometimes people get nervous. They're like, Well, I kinda have this feeling, but this kid didn't outright come to me and say, I'm being touched or someone beats me. you can make a report in good faith and someone will look into it. And hopefully, you know, we're wrong and this kid is actually fine and we and like misinterpreted something. But making sure

that we're making those reports promptly. Yeah. even if you have the suspicion that something is going on, so that someone can look into it. Yeah. So what happens? So they've made the report. They've let's say they've called CPS, they've called the police. What what happens next typically? So once that report gets processed by whoever you talk to, when you call or if you go into the police station or anything like that.

Speaker (37:04.94)

they'll assign it to an investigator in in the right unit, whoever has the authority to investigate that specifically. And from there, those investigators will make contact with the family, maybe reach out to us if it's a case that qualifies for our services, and work on making sure that that child is safe, that family's getting whatever services they need, arrests are happening if that needs to happen, things like that. And so lots of times reporters want to know with good intention, like, hey, what's going on?

usually if you make a report through like DFPS through CPS, you'll get a very generic like email response or a letter in the mail saying, Hey, we received your report. It is or is not being recommended for investigation. there's not really a whole lot of other information that's provided. it's possible that that agency will follow up with you as the reporter and say, Hey, we got your report. I kinda wanna talk through with you and make sure that we've got all of your information right. Do you have anything else you want us to know? Things like that. Yeah.

And from a CPS perspective, CPS is not going to disclose who the reporter is. Right. Because that's a concern too. People are like, well, I don't want to say anything, because then it's going to make Thanksgiving really, really awkward. but CPS doesn't disclose and law enforcement really isn't in the business of saying, Well, yeah, we got a call from so and so and they said your kid is being abused. Yeah. That's not something that they're real interested in doing. We want to, you know, protect reporters and make them feel comfortable reporting. Yeah.

doesn't mean their name won't ever come out in at some point, depending on what information they know and how they know it. but it's not out on display for all to see. Yeah, this is the person that made the report. Yeah. And so I think that's something important for people to know too, as they're processing making a report. Right. So let's let's talk let's change gears and let's talk about the the forensic interview. The report has been made. It's deemed credible enough to

either CPS or the police department and then there's an interview that happens. Let's talk first why this whole process of the forensic interview happened. Is that do you guys know that? Like where it how did like way back with when there wasn't The Bridge

Speaker (39:32.843)

This what caused them to start doing this forensic interview? So the Children's Advocacy Center, the CAC model, is something that really started in Texas, I believe, in 1989. there was a CAC that existed in I think in Alabama prior to CACs in Texas, but The Bridge was actually the first CAC in the state of Texas, which is really cool. But

What had happened was prosecutors, police officers, CPS workers started to realize, hey, these kids are being interviewed over and over and over again. nobody knows what's going on, cases are falling through the cracks, everybody's doing their best, but like everybody has different pieces of information, and by the time this case gets to the prosecutor, the district attorney, county attorney, whoever, it's like, I don't even know what mess I'm looking at. And now

This kid has talked to eight different professionals about this abuse. they're tired of talking about it. We have what look like different stories, even if they're not, because this kid's been asked to talk about the same thing so many times. if you asked me to tell you the story or eight different people, the story of my summer vacation, those eight people would get different variations. And I'm not lying to any of them. Right. And it's not like this this conversation happens all in like three days. These are all these.

It's like you talk to this person and maybe a few weeks later you talk to that person and stuff like that. So it's not like it's top of mind type thing, right? Right. And so what another important thing that they realized is is law enforcement can be really, really good at their jobs, but believe it or not, law enforcement doesn't go through a whole lot of training on how to talk to a four year old. Yeah. And if you've been around a four year old recently, they can kind of be chaotic and all over the place and they do not talk the same way.

As a 17-year-old most of the time. If they have a lot of older siblings, then maybe they're using big words they don't understand. But these people that are talking to kids aren't necessarily trained on how to do it in a developmentally appropriate way. And so this forensic interview model came out. So what I do is not therapeutic. Lots of times kids will get in the chair in the room with and go, Is this counseling? Tell them no, it's not. My job is to ask you questions and listen to what you have to say.

Speaker (41:58.691)

Kind of feels like counseling, but it's not. And we talk, I how I would describe it if I were in court is a forensic interview is a developmentally appropriate, it's legally sound, and it's a fact-finding interview. When I go into that room, I'm a neutral person, which is kind of an odd thing for a lot of people to hear. Working at a child advocacy center. I don't go in with any conceptions about the child that I'm gonna talk to or the person that has allegedly hurt them.

Anything like that, I go in and I'm just going to listen to whatever they have to say. Right. And so by asking these open ended questions and giving them the space to narrate about their experiences and things that have happened to them, we gather the largest quantity of information. We also get the most accurate information. Right. The words that I use, my process is the same, regardless of whether I'm talking to a two year old or a 17 year old. The words that I use are just going to be a little bit different. Right.

but that interview goes to CPS, it goes to law enforcement, it goes to the district attorney. so that way all of those people don't have to go and interview this kid. Everyone has the same information. They can watch it over and over because it's audio and video recorded, and they can use that as that child's statement for the purpose of their investigation. It doesn't replace that kid maybe having to testify in court if the case ends up there. that's a different bridge across when we get to it.

But it it keeps that child from having to talk about it from that time until they have to talk to the district attorney and start preparing for that part of the process if that's where it goes. And so that minimizes the trauma to kids. I don't take my job lightly. I know that I ask hard questions. And I think every teenage boy I've ever talked to doesn't want to talk about their private parts with me. And I get it. Yeah. I get that I ask uncomfortable questions, even though this is my everyday. It's a weird thing for these kids.

But by being neutral, by being kind of unfazed by whatever they say and maintaining my composure, I give them the safe space. They can share whatever it is that they need to share. And then they hopefully don't have to keep unpacking it. They can go to counseling and unpack it there however is comfortable for them. Mm-hmm. With someone who's trained to do that. But they don't have to keep talking about the nitty gritty facts with people that are really gross, the things they don't want to remember, things like that. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker (44:27.596)

And it also minimizes the trauma to families. Like you don't have to bring your kid to all these different things and watch them just struggle through those conversations.

So they started so so they started doing that in the late eighties and and things like that. Now I know that there's some other programs and things that that The Bridge does that we're gonna be talking to. but what are there are there kind of misunderstood aspects to the forensic interview that you're aware of, like misconceptions about it or anything like that? Is there any what if if you're walking down the street and somebody says, What's a forensic interviewer?

Then you're talking to do they have they ever heard of it before? Or, you know, do you know what I'm asking? Is it yeah. Is it No, I think it's an interesting thing to explain to people and it's kind of this foreign concept. because even what I do is different from how law enforcement conducts their interviews. There's different things that are happening. both are are good and successful in achieving their own purposes. I think a lot of times people believe that

the forensic interview means that this kid won't have to testify in court. Well, we'll just play this kid's statement and they don't have to testify. That's a big misunderstanding. and I think that that comes from some inaccurate education, like historically. And so that kind of surprises people when they get to that point and they're like, well, this kid still has to testify. Sometimes people ask, What's the point? It's like this saved them eight different times having to tell their story to eight different people between now and then, you know. I think sometimes

And parents will come in and being like, You're not interrogating my kid. And I'm like, You're so right. I'm not. Like, that's not what's happening. I'm never gonna make a kid talk to me. Sure. if a kid decides that they're done, like we'll be done. If they're not ready to talk about it, I I I'm not going to make them. That's not productive for anybody. I think more generally, there's just misconceptions about what The Bridge does. I do think that there's some I some belief that

Speaker (46:34.818)

What I do is educational and it's not. In that room we only talk about things that kids already know or have experienced themselves. We do education differently through things like play it safe, but my job is not educational in the forensic interview room. Yeah. Mm. Wow. So, what how do you how do you become a forensic interviewer? What what does that look like? Is it a degree? Is it a training? Is it

So lots of people who are forensic interviewers have like either a criminal justice or a social worker psychology background. those are some of the common ones that we see. I don't think that there's really a specific requirement. Yeah. for a for the a type of degree that you have to have. CAC Texas, Children's Advocacy Centers of Texas is kind of our parent organization and they facilitate all of our training, our core training. we do continuing education as interviewers and

That's part of why interviewers are the ones that facilitate community education and equipping professionals because we're constantly immersed in what are the trends, what are we seeing, what are the new websites and and things like that. And we work with Valeria on like making sure, hey, we're talking to kids about how to safely navigate those websites and things like that. but I go through some core training there, down in Austin and

To a degree, it's also just on the job training. I mean being in the room watching these interviews, learning from other interviewers who have been doing it. I get training on the process and the technicalities of that through CAC Texas. but every interview's different. every kid is different. And so I'm doing fundamentally the same thing. Yeah. But I'm also doing a lot of thinking on my feet. and that's why also that continuing education is is so important. That's very yeah, absolutely. So

This has to be like pretty heavy work. Yeah, it definitely can be. And so like how do you how do you manage that? I think that everyone does it a little bit differently. every position in our office engages with this idea of abuse and families and children in very different ways. my conversations with children absolutely look very different than the conversations that Valeria has with children.

Speaker (49:00.822)

but I think we do a lot of internal work on working with our supervisors and having those conversations and check-ins of like, hey, how are you doing? there's a lot of compartmentalization that goes on. And I think it also helps just as an interviewer going into that room and knowing, okay, I'm neutral, like I'm not being cold or

unengaged with this child, but I'm also not in a therapeutic role where I'm emotionally engaged. And I think that that helps. like I'm going in here to gather facts and I know at the end of the day, because I'm going to gather these facts, like that's what's gonna help law enforcement make an arrest. That's what gonna is gonna help CPS put a safety plan in place to get that that suspect, that perpetrator out of the home or make sure they don't have access to more children. Sure. And so

Looking heavily toward the silver linings and the good things and the wins is I think a really beneficial thing that that helps combat the heaviness. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, question for Valeria again. So that you have these programs that you lead with kiddos. She's Emily talked about play it safe, which is what? What's that?

so Play It Safe is a curriculum designed specifically for each grade level. so the lessons grow with the children. younger students learn foundational concepts like body safety, identifying trusted adults, and recognizing safe versus unsafe situations. As children get older the lessons become more in depth.

Covering topics like boundaries, online safety, and how to respond if they ever feel unsafe. Obviously all in a age appropriate way. we're currently in elementary schools, but we're pushing to get into middle schools and high schools. Yeah, I could see that being I mean, just 'cause they're, you know, now in sixth grade, I mean, it's not like they're they need to stop.

Speaker (51:07.394)

Right. You know, learning more and and things like that. I mean, you know, they're they certainly are st still being victimized, you know, in their teens, very likely. So so what do you think is the like the key message that the kids learn? Is what like what are what is at the heart of all the training? You know what I'm asking? Yeah.

So the biggest takeaway I think from the Play It Safe program is teaching them our safety rule and that is to if they ever feel unsafe, to say no, run away, and tell a trusted adult. we don't just talk about it, we get the children on their feet. we use motions for each step. Yeah. And we encourage them to say the words out loud. We encourage them to scream the words out loud and that way they're kinda having fun with it. It helps them remember what to do if they are ever in an unsafe situation. so I think just the biggest takeaway

is to know that it is okay to tell somebody no. Yeah, absolutely. You know, b when I was growing up, I'm a little bit older than you ladies, but it was the whole stranger danger thing. And there was Ruff McRuff, right? He came I think we watched videos on him and and all this stuff. And and so there was this this education that the people that are gonna harm you are strangers.

And so to trust the people that are close to you when I I don't know what the numbers are, but I would say I would assume that the much higher percentage of people of kiddos that are abused are so by someone very close.

Not maybe it's a family member, maybe it's a cousin, maybe it's a teacher or whatever, but it's not a stranger. That's yes, there are strangers that develop a relationship on Roblox and get over here on Discord or all the things. That does happen, but

Speaker (53:10.998)

We we they really kind of and I know that they didn't know this at the time, right? I mean, they weren't being malicious, but the idea was stranger danger. And so it was it was all it was always this this person you didn't know was the person to be afraid of. And and so I'm sure that you guys like make sure that kids know like it's not just some other person. It can be absolutely be someone.

that's much, much closer that that can be doing the harm. So yeah. I just I just like I say I remember I remember Scruff McGruff. and everything. So you're working on expanding these trainings beyond professionals, right? Yes. And so what does that look like?

We're really in a position where we're trying to figure out where areas of need are. where are these gaps in education? Like is this education already being provided to certain groups of people? We don't wanna, you know, reinvent the wheel. But also figuring out, hey, how can we modify our trainings and like create a product that is something that's beneficial to the general public, to certain groups of people, people like foster parents, just

parents of of children who have been somewhere like The Bridge or have endured abuse and now they're on the back end of it. Like, what are the needs and how can we talk about this and prevent the or present this information to the general public in a way that's like not gonna freak them out? Not to like sugarcoat anything, but like how do we tailor this information and create this comprehensive, cohesive message to the general public on what to do.

'Cause lots of times people don't report child abuse because they don't know it has to be reported and they also don't know who to report to. Exactly. And there's this big fear of CPS. Like, well, if I call CPS, CPS is gonna take the kids away. And like CPS actually doesn't wanna take the kids most of the time. Like those are the egregious cases where those kids are being removed and more times than not, it's like, Okay, well if we can get the perpetrator out of the house, like that's what we're gonna do. Yeah. instead of

Speaker (55:29.494)

relocating these kids. It does happen, but just because CPS is involved doesn't mean that someone's kids are gonna get taken away. Right. And so I think that that's a real big barrier to that reporting too. Sure. Sure, sure. Well, so Valeria, if every parent listened to this episode, what do you hope that they're gonna do different n after they've learned about this?

Speaker (56:05.426)

if they ever have the opportunity to have their kid attend a play safe education or any education like this, I hope

that they give them the opportunity to. it is an opt-in, opt-out program. but I hope they how important it is to educate these kids. Yeah. we do pre-K through fifth, so I know pre-K sounds very young, but I mean you have to get this instilled in their mind. because again, you hear about these things that happen, but you never think it's going to be you. You don't know to the extent that it's happening here in your community.

So yeah, I would just hope that they give them the opportunity to attend these educations. So are they strictly in school settings? I mean, are you you're always going in school settings or you're not you don't go to a Sunday school class or something? I mean, is it they're always just through the schools? At the moment, yes, but we are hoping to get into other settings like you said, Sunday schools or even homeschooling or just any area where there's going to be kids. I mean there's camps in the

summers, there's camps on the weekends or just after school. We want to make sure that we're reaching every child possible. Yeah. I think with Valeria's job too, there's this big misconception that the programs that she's doing are sex education. And that freaks a lot of parents out. They're like, well, you're not talking to my kids about sex. And what I mean Valeria can speak more into this, but as it with it being an op in op opt-in, opt-out program, lots of parents are like, well, no, you're not

You're not doing that. You're not talking to my kids about sex. And fundamentally that's not what's happening. Yeah. And so I think encouraging parents who do have questions or hear about programs like that, calling us and talking to us about it. Yeah, sure. can kind of alleviate all of that and address that misunderstanding. Sure, sure, sure.

Speaker (58:04.3)

Emily, what do you think is one thing that every adult should know when it comes to protecting kiddos?

Whew, that's a big question. Yeah.

I think

that it's a really high honor and it should be considered a really high honor when a kid discloses to you. as tempting as it is to freak out, even if you're freaking out on the inside, remembering that you've been told about something that's happening because you're a trusted adult. Like holding on to that and being brave enough and bold enough.

To walk with this already brave child. I tell people that all the time. Like, I've talked to some of the bravest kids in the whole wide world. Sure. And that's a really cool job. And so when it comes to protecting kids, like how you engage with them, the relationships that you have with them, they matter. And so how you invest in the children in your life and how you handle those relationships and

Speaker (59:14.43)

being sensitive to the things that they've already experienced or maybe experiencing has such an impact on how investigations, like how kids walk through investigations, how kids walk through scary seasons of change. having a supportive caregiver, supportive adults in their life is a is a huge indicator or predictor of whether or not a kid will

continue to be bold and and stand by their outcry because sometimes they take it back and they're like, No, too much has changed. Yeah. Now my my mom and my dad aren't together and my sister's mad at me and I can't go to the same school and my life is upside down. So maybe if I just take it back, everything will go back to normal. Even if the bad stuff starts happening again, at least everything else will be normal and nobody will be mad at me. Yeah. So just remembering like as you're protecting kids, it's relational too.

Regardless of whether it's like a professional relationship that you have with these kids or they're kids that are in your own home, they're in your life, they're related to you. investing in that and being very, very intentional is such a huge deal, whether they get abused or not. Yeah. Yeah. Valeria what do think is one thing that every child deserves to hear?

if they're ever put in a difficult situation, if something ever happens to them or something happens to a friend of theirs, it's never their fault. And they need to know that. and that's why it's so important to speak up to a trusted adult. And I just hope that at the end of it when all of us can come together as a village and take care of them, that they know that none of this was their fault. They didn't do anything wrong.

So absolutely. That's so true. Well, so protecting kids is it's it's not just the responsibility of CPS or the the counselor or the pr this pro some professional role. It's like you said, it's a village. And you know, if you do see something then saying something so that so that they're you know that hopefully it it will stop, you know, if there's something going on. So

Speaker (01:01:29.152)

I just I really I just think it's super critical and important what you guys do. kind of kind of in both roles, right? So getting out there telling the community

What how do they recognize and what what can they do? And then once they once they've made that report and then coming to you and saying, you know, this is you know that this is such a like you said, honoring and opening that door to stop it, to to make it not happen anymore, you know, and so

I think what The Bridge does as a whole is super super important and I I think that that both of you guys have a super important role in The Bridge and I really appreciate you guys coming and sharing and you know this is this is this is tough stuff. I mean it's not something everybody wants to talk about. and so but I think that these are important conversations to have. And and I think that a lot of I think that, you know

The majority of our listeners are foster and adoptive parents. and I think and and I'll be honest, I thought before today that it once they had done the forensic interview that they didn't have to testify. I did not know that they that they potentially could have to if their if their plea deal wasn't didn't come to come up that that they had to testify. So I mean it's just it's just important. I think a lot of foster and adoptive families, I mean, they don't know what

goes on in there. You know what I mean? And so I think it's I think it's valuable work and valuable conversation. I just really appreciate you guys willing to come and and talk and you know, it's probably little a little nervous, but you know, but but but just incredibly important work that you guys are doing. Thank you.

Speaker (01:03:27.318)

Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate your coming and and everything. I look forward to my conversation with Bobbi. that's gonna be really good. She's bringing one of her LCPAs as well. And so, guys, if you if you liked what what you've seen on here, please make sure and like, subscribe, share all the things. we're we continue to grow this platform to bring about awareness for the different things that are going on in the foster care adoption world. And so

So please consider liking, share, and subscribing. Don't forget about Janie Thomas over at ETC Bookkeeping. If you have any needs for for bookkeeping stuff, be sure to reach out to her. And and ladies, thank you one more time for coming today. Yeah, thank you for having us. Thank you for having us. Absolutely. We'll see you guys next time.